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Canada DivineFire
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 971

26 Oct 2015, 22:44

Just rest assured that all the changes (well most of them) are well founded and have been lengthily discussed and tested.
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
NWC LAN 4th place
Posts: 7239
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

26 Oct 2015, 22:47

Really nice to see we will finally be able to play on fair maps and with more balanced civs. But there is 1 thing people haven't mentioned in this thread yet, tho it will in my opinion be the biggest flaw in the balance. And it will also change the meta, which is what the FP team didn't want I think.

I'm talking about that card tad players don't really know : silk road. For those who don't know, on tad it increases the crates by 15%, increases what you get from stagecoach by 15%, and works for the whole team. On nilla, this card is 30%. So now, it will be 25%, almost as much as on nilla. BUT in age 1. Which means you can now ship it after 3 vils, before colonial, because of the otto free TP.

So let's imagine you have a 400w start. You just take 80 in each crate, which makes 320 wood = enough for a TP + house. When silk road comes, you get +25 wood in each crate, which means you get on the floor 200 wood (you left 100 and you earn 100). Why not, you get a second TP without chopping any wood.
Then you age up. 500w age up. You make an abus/jan build, 700w 700g 600g, or rather 875w 875g 750g.

So what happened ? After this you already got a 700 resources shipment. But remember this also works for stagecoach. Remember this also works for the team. Remember you can ship this in age 1 and get a faster TP, while still having a shipment ready in colonial. And also think every other crate you might ship will be improved (600w, 700f, 1000w, 1000g ?).

On nilla this card is insane. You can get 35 abus or 30 huss before 9 minutes using it. Ok it's 30%, but still... At least it's a slow timing, because you have to ship it in colonial as first card if you want it to be most effective, which means it delayed the 700w/700g or whatever, and so most likely delayed the first batch. Now you can jan abus with eco and still be fast, maybe even faster...

Sorry if that's a bit long but I'm 100% sure that this card will be way too op, all the more so in team games. I think if you don't change it it will be abused and might make otto even more overpowered than before, with a new "boomy" otto meta.
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

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Canada DivineFire
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 971

26 Oct 2015, 22:49

kaiserklein wrote:Really nice to see we will finally be able to play on fair maps and with more balanced civs. But there is 1 thing people haven''t mentioned in this thread yet, tho it will in my opinion be the biggest flaw in the balance. And it will also change the meta, which is what the FP team didn''t want I think.

I''m talking about that card tad players don''t really know : silk road. For those who don''t know, on tad it increases the crates by 15%, increases what you get from stagecoach by 15%, and works for the whole team. On nilla, this card is 30%. So now, it will be 25%, almost as much as on nilla. BUT in age 1. Which means you can now ship it after 3 vils, before colonial, because of the otto free TP.

So let''s imagine you have a 400w start. You just take 80 in each crate, which makes 320 wood = enough for a TP + house. When silk road comes, you get +25 wood in each crate, which means you get on the floor 200 wood (you left 100 and you earn 100). Why not, you get a second TP without chopping any wood.
Then you age up. 500w age up. You make an abus/jan build, 700w 700g 600g, or rather 875w 875g 750g.

So what happened ? After this you already got a 700 resources shipment. But remember this also works for stagecoach. Remember this also works for the team. Remember you can ship this in age 1 and get a faster TP, while still having a shipment ready in colonial. And also think every other crate you might ship will be improved (600w, 700f, 1000w, 1000g ?).

On nilla this card is insane. You can get 35 abus or 30 huss before 9 minutes using it. Ok it''s 30%, but still... At least it''s a slow timing, because you have to ship it in colonial as first card if you want it to be most effective, which means it delayed the 700w/700g or whatever, and so most likely delayed the first batch. Now you can jan abus with eco and still be fast, maybe even faster...

Sorry if that''s a bit long but I''m 100% sure that this card will be way too op, all the more so in team games. I think if you don''t change it it will be abused and might make otto even more overpowered than before, with a new "boomy" otto meta.
Please play the patch and test the changes, then complain about mistakes.
Taunt 3
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
ESO: Jerom_

26 Oct 2015, 22:56

The silk road change is just.. no. You can't do that if you have disagreed on tons of other potential changes because you don't want to change the way the game works. But whatever.
No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 9999

26 Oct 2015, 22:57

so this is a farewell to someone who is not actually leaving? must be a canadian thing, like saying happy bday mitoe when its not your bday
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Canada DivineFire
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 971

26 Oct 2015, 22:58

Yeah we also hold open doors for nobody.
Taunt 3
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8601
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

26 Oct 2015, 23:02

Predicting that Silk-Road is overpowered presumes its viability in the first place...
Effective ESOC Patch notes

"In general you shouldnt say gg before clicking resign IMO"

"♪You can't trust anyone, because you're untrustable. How can you trust someone you know can't trust you?♫"
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United States of America Cometk
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 3680
ESO: DJ_Cometk
Location: California

26 Oct 2015, 23:04

ottoman having fortress age composition options and a unique boom style actually sounds rad
sebnan12 wrote:whenever i see a picture of siege elephants i question why they do 40~ dmg when they hit u. that phat cannons probably loading coconuts
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Russia yurashic
Howdah
Posts: 1140
ESO: Yurashic
Location: Russia

26 Oct 2015, 23:22

Ottomans aren't a top civ on esoc maps anyway because you can't starve anyone so they won't be too strong.

Silk Road is a very interesting and fresh change.
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8601
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

26 Oct 2015, 23:25

yurashic wrote:Ottomans aren''t a top civ on esoc maps anyway because you can''t starve anyone so they won''t be too strong.

Silk Road is a very interesting and fresh change.
Awww yeah... that''s what Goodspeed wants to hear!
Effective ESOC Patch notes

"In general you shouldnt say gg before clicking resign IMO"

"♪You can't trust anyone, because you're untrustable. How can you trust someone you know can't trust you?♫"
No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 9999

26 Oct 2015, 23:25

lol its hardly fresh, its just undoing an old nerf basically. i did always like that card on nilla tho
Palestine Mimsy for President
Jaeger
Posts: 3680

26 Oct 2015, 23:37

umeu wrote:lol its hardly fresh, its just undoing an old nerf basically. i did always like that card on nilla tho
It''s an age 1 shipment now :eyespopping:
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Finland princeofkabul
Howdah
NWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 1878
ESO: Princeofkabul
Location: Sunnyvale trailer park

26 Oct 2015, 23:55

Offshore support shoulda been nerfed :S, and warships in general more than just monitor range. Buff Samurai, they look so badass but suck :,(
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No Flag thebritish
Jaeger
Posts: 3787

26 Oct 2015, 23:58

princeofkabul wrote:Offshore support shoulda been nerfed :S, and warships in general more than just monitor range. Buff Samurai, they look so badass but suck :,(
That will make it land to beat water np
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
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No Flag ovi12
Jaeger
Posts: 4320

27 Oct 2015, 00:12

kaiserklein wrote:Really nice to see we will finally be able to play on fair maps and with more balanced civs. But there is 1 thing people haven''t mentioned in this thread yet, tho it will in my opinion be the biggest flaw in the balance. And it will also change the meta, which is what the FP team didn''t want I think.

I''m talking about that card tad players don''t really know : silk road. For those who don''t know, on tad it increases the crates by 15%, increases what you get from stagecoach by 15%, and works for the whole team. On nilla, this card is 30%. So now, it will be 25%, almost as much as on nilla. BUT in age 1. Which means you can now ship it after 3 vils, before colonial, because of the otto free TP.

So let''s imagine you have a 400w start. You just take 80 in each crate, which makes 320 wood = enough for a TP + house. When silk road comes, you get +25 wood in each crate, which means you get on the floor 200 wood (you left 100 and you earn 100). Why not, you get a second TP without chopping any wood.
Then you age up. 500w age up. You make an abus/jan build, 700w 700g 600g, or rather 875w 875g 750g.

So what happened ? After this you already got a 700 resources shipment. But remember this also works for stagecoach. Remember this also works for the team. Remember you can ship this in age 1 and get a faster TP, while still having a shipment ready in colonial. And also think every other crate you might ship will be improved (600w, 700f, 1000w, 1000g ?).

On nilla this card is insane. You can get 35 abus or 30 huss before 9 minutes using it. Ok it''s 30%, but still... At least it''s a slow timing, because you have to ship it in colonial as first card if you want it to be most effective, which means it delayed the 700w/700g or whatever, and so most likely delayed the first batch. Now you can jan abus with eco and still be fast, maybe even faster...

Sorry if that''s a bit long but I''m 100% sure that this card will be way too op, all the more so in team games. I think if you don''t change it it will be abused and might make otto even more overpowered than before, with a new "boomy" otto meta.
I don''t see how you can argue with this.
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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Finland princeofkabul
Howdah
NWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 1878
ESO: Princeofkabul
Location: Sunnyvale trailer park

27 Oct 2015, 00:13

yurashic wrote:Ottomans aren''t a top civ on esoc maps anyway because you can''t starve anyone so they won''t be too strong.

Silk Road is a very interesting and fresh change.
Many of the esoc maps has shitty hunts what are you talking about?
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Strategical management SKG
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7551
ESO: Garja

27 Oct 2015, 00:16

Not to defend otto changes, but which esoc maps do exactly have shitty hunts?
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 5266
ESO: mr_bramboy
Location: Amsterdam

27 Oct 2015, 00:23

garja wrote:Not to defend otto changes, but which esoc maps do exactly have shitty hunts?
Cascade, Bengal, Tibet, and Baja are all great maps for otto to starve its opponent.
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
NWC LAN 4th place
Posts: 7239
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

27 Oct 2015, 00:24

divinefire wrote:
kaiserklein wrote:Really nice to see we will finally be able to play on fair maps and with more balanced civs. But there is 1 thing people havent mentioned in this thread yet, tho it will in my opinion be the biggest flaw in the balance. And it will also change the meta, which is what the FP team didnt want I think.

Im talking about that card tad players dont really know : silk road. For those who dont know, on tad it increases the crates by 15%, increases what you get from stagecoach by 15%, and works for the whole team. On nilla, this card is 30%. So now, it will be 25%, almost as much as on nilla. BUT in age 1. Which means you can now ship it after 3 vils, before colonial, because of the otto free TP.

So lets imagine you have a 400w start. You just take 80 in each crate, which makes 320 wood = enough for a TP + house. When silk road comes, you get +25 wood in each crate, which means you get on the floor 200 wood (you left 100 and you earn 100). Why not, you get a second TP without chopping any wood.
Then you age up. 500w age up. You make an abus/jan build, 700w 700g 600g, or rather 875w 875g 750g.

So what happened ? After this you already got a 700 resources shipment. But remember this also works for stagecoach. Remember this also works for the team. Remember you can ship this in age 1 and get a faster TP, while still having a shipment ready in colonial. And also think every other crate you might ship will be improved (600w, 700f, 1000w, 1000g ?).

On nilla this card is insane. You can get 35 abus or 30 huss before 9 minutes using it. Ok its 30%, but still... At least its a slow timing, because you have to ship it in colonial as first card if you want it to be most effective, which means it delayed the 700w/700g or whatever, and so most likely delayed the first batch. Now you can jan abus with eco and still be fast, maybe even faster...

Sorry if thats a bit long but Im 100% sure that this card will be way too op, all the more so in team games. I think if you dont change it it will be abused and might make otto even more overpowered than before, with a new "boomy" otto meta.
Please play the patch and test the changes, then complain about mistakes.
No need to play the patch when I can play nilla... In fact it will be even better than on nilla, since 5% less are not that important, but the switch to discovery age is. Trust me, with that change you will be able to get abus 10 by 10 from 5 min to 8 min without any problem. 3v silk road 700w 700g 600g = RIP aoe
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

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Bosnia & Herzegovina medinos
Lancer
Posts: 740
ESO: AlexBoye,Daddysmurf
Location: GRAND LINE

27 Oct 2015, 00:26

Thank you guys for the time you took to make this FP even possible..

This game is still old but I see alot of passion you have put in this patch forums and everything..

God bless you all !!
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
ESO: Jerom_

27 Oct 2015, 00:43

You know, all things considered, maybe spain got the biggest buff out of all civs.
No Flag 88baronrojo88
Crossbow
Posts: 13

27 Oct 2015, 00:55

Wow now spain is OP whit one soldier more in shipment , irony off XD
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7551
ESO: Garja

27 Oct 2015, 00:57

bramboy wrote:
garja wrote:Not to defend otto changes, but which esoc maps do exactly have shitty hunts?
Cascade, Bengal, Tibet, and Baja are all great maps for otto to starve its opponent.
Cascade has no tp. It also has 8+6 elks which is equal to 14 bisons. Ah + 4 berries.
Bengal has as many close hunts as kamchatka basically, only slightly further away. Also 2 berrie bushes and again no TP.
Tibet is a special case, can see that being detrimental to Otto too.
Baja California has a decent number of hunts, but ye probably out of those you mentioned is the best for Otto.

Basically there isnt a single esoc maps that have less hunts than the average RE map.

jerom wrote:You know, all things considered, maybe spain got the biggest buff out of all civs.

It is pretty clear to me that ports and dutch got much bigger buff. Spain was about to get more in fact.
No Flag 88baronrojo88
Crossbow
Posts: 13

27 Oct 2015, 01:03

yeah he is trolling spain still whit bad politicans and res shipments, one soldier more don't matter piroshiki style is only style for spain because is a terrible civ in eco
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 5266
ESO: mr_bramboy
Location: Amsterdam

27 Oct 2015, 01:06

garja wrote:
bramboy wrote:Cascade, Bengal, Tibet, and Baja are all great maps for otto to starve its opponent.
Cascade has no tp. It also has 8+6 elks which is equal to 14 bisons. Ah + 4 berries.
Bengal has as many close hunts as kamchatka basically, only slightly further away. Also 2 berrie bushes and again no TP.
Tibet is a special case, can see that being detrimental to Otto too.
Baja California has a decent number of hunts, but ye probably out of those you mentioned is the best for Otto.

Basically there isnt a single esoc maps that have less hunts than the average RE map.

jerom wrote:You know, all things considered, maybe spain got the biggest buff out of all civs.
It is pretty clear to me that ports and dutch got much bigger buff. Spain was about to get more in fact.

Good points. I cant see Bengal having as many hunts as Kamchatka, though. I seem to run out of hunts a lot faster whenever I play Bengal' especially the hunt under your base is pretty tricky when it comes to spawning right. I hadnt considered the fact that there is no tp though, but I wonder if this is relevant anymore since the church gives more xp now.

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