Mitoe wrote:Cometk wrote:Mitoe wrote:I just don't understand why it needs to be changed. It's in a good spot right now.
Unction, or Spanish Gold?
Spanish Gold, sorry.
Understood. Agreed.
Mitoe wrote:Cometk wrote:Mitoe wrote:I just don't understand why it needs to be changed. It's in a good spot right now.
Unction, or Spanish Gold?
Spanish Gold, sorry.
Well is anyone sending it?Mitoe wrote:I just don't understand why it needs to be changed. It's in a good spot right now.
somppukunkku wrote:I also find it amusing that some members tend to only state things like "it's obviously too strong" and just hit likes based on who is writing/who is somebody arguing against without giving it the subject any kind actual thought. Really constructive.
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Goodspeed wrote:Well is anyone sending it?Mitoe wrote:I just don't understand why it needs to be changed. It's in a good spot right now.
I suppose simply increasing the amount of gold would also help viability.
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
It's possible. Will tweak, accordingly, or revert. I'm convinced it's worth testing, though.Mitoe wrote:– "Spanish Gold" shipment decreased from 400c to 300c per shipment; moved to Colonial Age
I don't like this. I think it's fine as-is in Fortress. I'm afraid that this will become a must-use shipment every game after this change.
I'm also not sold on the double Unction buff. It seems too good now.
Two points:Goodspeed wrote:And you would benefit from a math class... 5v gather 250c in about 75 seconds with placer mines, and keep in mind that depletes your coin mine while this shipment wouldn't. Spain's shipments arrive much faster than once per 75 seconds in early fortress. In early fort the shipment would be worth about 8 vills and would slowly decrease in value as you send more shipments but it does save coin mines. On top of that it comes with 250 immediately, which would take the 5v 75 seconds to match.
Obviously, then, you should use it, and try to prove your point.Kaiserklein wrote:Colonial 300g spanish gold is obviously too strong.
I think the former is quite a constructive statement, though – unlike the latter.Mr_Bramboy wrote:somppukunkku wrote:I also find it amusing that some members tend to only state things like "it's obviously too strong" and just hit likes based on who is writing/who is somebody arguing against without giving it the subject any kind actual thought. Really constructive.somppukunkku wrote:Also, I really wonder how many elo pages we have to go through to find a spanish game by kaiser or dia.....
Although you make a decent point, try to stay friendly and constructive yourself in this subforum to make sure the discussion remains healthy. You've made your points regarding Spanish Gold, we will wait now on the others to defend their case.
I definitely will be considering reverting or tweaking the former, and tweaking the latter. I do think both changes have merit, though, and would like to test them.Garja wrote:I already used spanish gold in colo, there are surely benefits in doing that. Instead of 700w 5v 700g you can go 700w spanish gold 5v. You do net some less resources at start (100g+5v start gathering later), but then it's lot of free resources. I imagine you can also use it in place of 700g with the standard FF in not aggressive MUs.
I also don't like having it in colonial. It's even harder to fit it in the colonial rack of shipments.
Also not sure about unction buff, I agree it feels a bit too good now. I simply wouldn't touch it, but you can consider a church wagon instead of 2 missionares. Alternatively 2 missionaries but no cost reduction.
It's possible. We'll see.Peachrocks wrote:Personally I think the idea behind the Spanish gold shipment needs to be remembered. It's supposed to give Spain options outside of mindlessly clicking cards and shoving them all at the opponent in early fortress and basically playing without a civ bonus and no ranged combat cards (other than Unction) outside of this.
Making it colonial will either make it a must have or inferior to 5 vill with very little wiggle room in the middle. Being in Fortress means the player must make a conscious choice of whether they want to go all in, or whether they want to try and compete long term. You could boost the age 3 version to 500 if the community feels that 400 is just not worthwhile.
As for Unction. The idea of it giving 2 missionaries is so that there is an 'instant' nature to it. All other combat cards work immediately. Unction does not. Also, on paper it sounds amazing, but training and keeping units in range of those missionaries is a pain and can reduce strategic options in exchange for this amazing paper buff.
It's not viable enough, at 400c, judging by how rarely it seems to be sent.Mitoe wrote:I just don't understand why it needs to be changed. It's in a good spot right now.
zoom wrote:Two points:Goodspeed wrote:And you would benefit from a math class... 5v gather 250c in about 75 seconds with placer mines, and keep in mind that depletes your coin mine while this shipment wouldn't. Spain's shipments arrive much faster than once per 75 seconds in early fortress. In early fort the shipment would be worth about 8 vills and would slowly decrease in value as you send more shipments but it does save coin mines. On top of that it comes with 250 immediately, which would take the 5v 75 seconds to match.
1. Sending it over any resource shipment (whether 700c, 700w, or 1000w) is a compromise; not necessarily better.
2. At 400c, the shipment is practically unviable, currently.
Still, if I see anyone abusing this broken shipment, I would be both delighted and more convinced to tweak it!
zoom wrote:It's not viable enough, at 400c, judging by how rarely it seems to be sent.Mitoe wrote:I just don't understand why it needs to be changed. It's in a good spot right now.
I should have been more specific: I very rarely see it sent. Just buffing or leaving it are definitely options, to me, though. I'm simply interested in seeing how the Colonial version plays out, once it's tweaked to the right amount.umeu wrote:zoom wrote:Two points:Goodspeed wrote:And you would benefit from a math class... 5v gather 250c in about 75 seconds with placer mines, and keep in mind that depletes your coin mine while this shipment wouldn't. Spain's shipments arrive much faster than once per 75 seconds in early fortress. In early fort the shipment would be worth about 8 vills and would slowly decrease in value as you send more shipments but it does save coin mines. On top of that it comes with 250 immediately, which would take the 5v 75 seconds to match.
1. Sending it over any resource shipment (whether 700c, 700w, or 1000w) is a compromise; not necessarily better.
2. At 400c, the shipment is practically unviable, currently.
Still, if I see anyone abusing this broken shipment, I would be both delighted and more convinced to tweak it!
I disagree that its unviable at 400c. I think its in a good place right now. I've used it frequently, usually with good results, though i wouldnt say its op. As i've also misjudged when i could send it, and it ended up costing me games when I sent it in situations where i was under too much pressure for it to pay off. Or worse, you send it, get pressured, cancel it, send something else, but then that unit shipment comes just a bit to late to be useful.
I can look up the recs, if you think thats useful.
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