Age of Empires III: Definitive Edition — Update 23511

[Garja]

what a joke

[aaryngend]

https://www.ageofempires.com/news/aoe3d ... tfix-24632

appears to be most updated patch list
also aztec 6 coyotes down to 5

That's where I got the notes from too.

Seems like they updated it again a couple of hours after I first copied it! The 5 Coyotes card change is located at the very end instead of the Aztec header like the other civs.
Rookie mistake on their side

I updated my initial hotfix post with the new changes

[Garja]

I wonder who complained about the 6coyote.
Anyway, sharpshooters stats were fine even, it's shooting animation which is very bad.

[Jets]

Why they keep increasing units range? Why?

[Youssef]

also 10 and 9 maces now gives 9 and 8 maces

[iron_turtle]

also 10 and 9 maces now gives 9 and 8 maces

lmao, what? Why was this not on patch notes?
Are they nerfing Aztec based on 800elo players?

[aaryngend]

also 10 and 9 maces now gives 9 and 8 maces

No it isn't. Dunno where you got your info from but I just checked ingame and it's still 10 and 9 maces.
Oops, the card icon still states 10 and 9 maces but when you ship it you only receive 9 and 8 maces

[Mr_Bramboy]

Finally, I can enter the ranked queue once more now that the 6 Coyote issue has been dealt with.

[aaryngend]

Finally, I can enter the ranked queue once more now that the 6 Coyote issue has been dealt with.

Aren't you surprised that they nerfed the right card? With the history of changes so far, you would think that they would accidentally nerf the pet coyote cards instead.

[lemmings121]

just delete aztec lakota iro already lol

its clear that they hate the original playstyle for those civs, and are doing what they can to force them into FF/turtle play. at this point i'm sure balance is worse then ever was in EP, and maybe even getting worse then RE in some points.

[gibson]

One of the worst takes in this thread.

[lemmings121]

One of the worst takes in this thread.

age of turtle: please turtle more edition

[Peachrocks]

If they were really forcing them into turtle play they’d boost the town ceremony card and others. When this happens then you can say turtle is being pushed. I mean hell you could argue that turtle was the original intent with how silly those cards were at release.

But hey no matter what anyone says here or anywhere else, they are gunna do them. Just be glad it’s not me doing patch notes

[Garja]

It's not turtle but prolonged gameplay. The fact is AOE3 lategame isn't that great. Mills and plants and walls are boring, most of the interesting stuff happens in age2 and age3 on the natural resources.

[n0el]

infinite resources sucks

[helln00]

hot take: lets scrap age 5, then there is no such thing as the late game

[Squamiger]

also 10 and 9 maces now gives 9 and 8 maces

lmao, what? Why was this not on patch notes?
Are they nerfing Aztec based on 800elo players?

i mean, it was weird that they prefaced the previous patch by saying, "aztec has the highest win rate of any civ and is really strong, but here are a bunch of buff"

[Squamiger]

infinite resources sucks

really the problem is the walling. mills and plantations are big enough wood investments that you still have to be very careful with switching over to them in a 1v1 game, and the 5-10 minutes where players are desperately trying to stay alive while transitioning to mills/plants are some of the funnest and craziest minutes in the game. if there were just no walls or walls were weaker and more expensive, then the late game infinite resource slog wars would end a lot quicker since you could just raid your opponents way more easily and the game would be better for it. just make bastion walls cost more imo and give players the option to make either weak wood walls or expensive strong bastion walls.

[dicktator_]

infinite resources sucks

really the problem is the walling. mills and plantations are big enough wood investments that you still have to be very careful with switching over to them in a 1v1 game, and the 5-10 minutes where players are desperately trying to stay alive while transitioning to mills/plants are some of the funnest and craziest minutes in the game. if there were just no walls or walls were weaker and more expensive, then the late game infinite resource slog wars would end a lot quicker since you could just raid your opponents way more easily and the game would be better for it. just make bastion walls cost more imo and give players the option to make either weak wood walls or expensive strong bastion walls.

Well it's both. The fact that walls are cheap and strong are a factor, but infinite resources make it so that we can pretty easily put our entire eco behind walls in lategame. In aoe2, palisade walls don't do much against imperial units and stone walls are expensive and take a long time to build, but it's also the fact that aoe2 players have to spread out a lot more to try to get stone, gold, and wood that makes raiding and multiprong more of a thing in their lategame. They can't realistically wall in every vill because then they'd have to wall up half the map. In sc2 they don't have walls at all but Terran and Protoss can pretty easily wall their first two bases and usually their 3rd as well with buildings. It's the fact that they have to move out for more resources that makes their lategames more intense and interesting. If they could make buildings to infinitely gather minerals and vespene their lategame would look a lot more boring (also skytoss turtle would be (even more?) busted). In other RTS games the need to expand for resources is a driving force for the entirety of the game, while in aoe3 it's only a driving force in the early and midgame, before the mill and plantation transition takes place. For a long time that early and midgame was long enough that the majority of sup games wouldn't go past it. But lately, the patch changes, new civ mechanics, and the meta seem to be wanting to head towards lategame, which is where the frustration is coming from. And I know it's funny that a treaty player is talking about the faults of aoe3 lategame, it's actually the same things that make aoe3 lategame boring for the majority of competitive players that allows treaty to be a thing.

Anyway, I hope that they revert these Aztec nerfs. Or at the very least, change the 8 mace shipment to INFINITE 8 mace, so that the change that Zoi kept trying to get through for years can be a thing.

[Garja]

Infinite 8 maces is sort of useless, I don't want to send another unit shipment when I'm sending 4 of them.
Anyway, I've been playing Aztecs since forever and played them a lot on DE too. They are just antimeta, all the buffs they received are a palliative compared to what they need to be competitive.
The only real buff that matters is the eagle scout as it improves age1 greatly, especially map scouting and later on map awareness. Time reduction on age ups did matter too but now it's only 10 secs so it's not enough to make them a valid enough alternative to the standard fast age.
The civ just has too many handicaps.
First of all the units are slow and have like no los. Coyote basically run blind (when they get the speed up you literally clash into other units without being able to turn back).
All ranged units have short range and short LOS (except AK but it's not a viable unit on regular basis). Slingers not only have short range but also have the damage output split in two volleys and with a setup animation. They basically don't kill shit even tho they have better stats/per cost than most RI.
Skull knights, the supposed elite unit, have been buffed left and right but they remain useless in the meta. You can't abuse them with the FI or FF because they're not like heavy cannons or some ranged unit that provide a real strategic advantage. The only abusive thing is the insane siege which is hard to exploit because it implies you do some sort of hard pressure and leave them sieging stuff while you somehow fight with slingers. Even when you manage to do that, you hardly trade profitably as you lose more than the damage dealt (usually there is only so much you can siege, unless the civ has most of his eco in base like Dutch or Japan).

On top of that Aztecs have no practical follow up, meaning you need godlike macro and planning ahead to just get your eco going after some sort of pressure/timing. Other civs are so facilitated in that regard, they develop naturally (just try any other civ FI for comparison, it basically plays itself).
These are only few main disavantages, there is a lot more. The civ doesn't need stat buffs to their units. Units have great stats. The eco is also fine if somehow you manage to set it up in the optimal way (I'm talking about maxed out eco with the right card sent). They need more facilitations like the eagle scout. Slingers would benefit from +2 range at some point or instant shooting animation. Alternatively AK need to be a viable unit, maybe without setup animation so that there is an effective dicotomy short/long ranged unit like USA have.

[Lukas_L99]

So the age2 politician options were basically reverted and all the age 2 unit shipments except for 6 pumas were nerfed, well done

[Squamiger]

did this just happen bc @Aussie_Drongo made an aztec smurf and ran a train on every single player from 700 to 1500 elo for a week with skull knight rushes

[CR_Joops]

did this just happen bc @Aussie_Drongo made an aztec smurf and ran a train on every single player from 700 to 1500 elo for a week with skull knight rushes

I am no dev. But, yes.

[Aussie_Drongo]

did this just happen bc @Aussie_Drongo made an aztec smurf and ran a train on every single player from 700 to 1500 elo for a week with skull knight rushes

A young @Diarouga once said, if you want to see it nerfed, you must exploit it yourself.

[harcha]

has Diarouga actually said anything ever?