Change needed for African units (IMO)

[kevinitalien]

To begin with I want to say that I like this DLC, I like the design of these civs and we feel that the dev has put a lot of time and work seen as the skins of the units and the buildings are beautiful, so THANKS sincerly

BUT THE CIV ARE BROKEN, SOME UNITS ARE BROKEN, SHIPMENT BROKEN so I would like to detail which units need to be changed IMO because many units are random with too random and too high stats and therefore make the African civs BROKEN

I will start with the units that are in the tower since it concerns the 2 civ :


30 atk ok but in melee


15 atk with 1.5 ROF mean 30 atk and then is too much ofc, maybe 21 atk with 3 ROF
I would let that atk siege a little high for this unit since it still costs 30f 70c and 2 pop


need to stop with all these units at 4.5 speed, I recall that the classic musk is at 4 speed, this unit is a skirm so 4 of speed is necessary no more

Regarding the tower it should be available at age 2 as well since it is sort of a saloon with really decent units and which trains quickly, its slowing down this stupid rush of 30 seconds which would already be very good because everyone has seen what a Hausa rush can look like for example




Now the Ethiopian change :


Explo need to be at 6.25 of speed plz because on the livestock map it's really broken you can take all the animals and just win (Same change applies for Hausa too)


I am ok for the 4.5 speed for this unit but 23 atk and 12 range plz


I don't know what to say about this unit, Why is the shipment free ?, the shipment should cost 500 influence and should be considered as a mercenary shipment


Hum 50 atk it's a little too much I think, maybe 40 atk imo or a bit more


this unit is unlocked with the Somali age up, but the X3 vs the cav is too much lol, just X2 and 4.5 of speed, need to stop with usain bolt unit sincerly

Big Benny is literally a 900f create or big transi in the market, settlers shouldn't eat Big Bennys at 8f/sec lol but as a classic livestock obviously

This shipment is too strong, 9 cannoneers for 500 influence is just too much when you consider that you can send it as a first card with Ethiopia, so I would change to 5 cannoneers for 250 influence maybe

Same 15 cannoneers for 1000 influence is too good for me, maybe 10 cannoneers 750 influence (that change applies for Hausa too imo)

these are the main changes that I would make for this civ, of course I do not know the civ too much yet, there are still need to watch for warships, lots of BO to use again but well it would already be a good start ^^

Hausa Change :


Why X5 vs cav in melee ? just X3 vs cav, i will also increase the cost of this unit to 70f 55c 2 pop, the unit is too cheap lol imo


Bruh no melee resistance plz


WTF is that unit, should increase at 3 ROF and what is that 1 rof in close combat lol, btw really need to stop with usain bolt unit jesus, should put 4.5 of speed then


this unit is really too strong I think, I would have put X1.5 vs the cav because its cutting the cav is quite violent, for a unit that you can have age 2 with this shipment which costs 500 influence it is a little too strong I think


hum I found it by allying you with the Berbers at age 2, hum for 200 influence I think 10000 piece is exaggerating (ok the settlers pick up less quickly but still) need to change that at 5000 or a bit more but not 10000


imo 3500 hp is a bit too much I think, 3000 hp maybe (same change for ethiopia ofc)


That shipment is broken, that cav is broken, 16 for 1000 influence wtf, I do not know how to balance this but the cav increases his rof as it loses HP and its works like a MM and double armor at 60%, this number should be reduced lol

here it would be the changes that I would bring to the unit because the balance of these civ is BROKEN, I don't know if my changes are good or bad, I have not yet looked at the water there are surely things that I 'forget, the dev really has to react so I tag @Interjection so that it looks at this thread (if it still looks at esoc xD), but I think we can do something to get the devs to change the units because a lot of things are wrong tbh and these 2 civ are too good lol
BTW I took 3 hours to do this thread don't be too hard xDD

EDIT after some discussion :

its no way we can balance that shipment, that shipment need to be delete


this building blocks the gold mines to the opponent and prevents to collect these mines, why? the opponent must be able to pick up the gold anyway, (imagine on maps like Manchuria where your opponent blocks the gold mine at 5000, already that it is a livestock map for ethiopia ....)

this card must be urgently reworked lol, put a limit on the villager or a cost for each villager but it must be reworked

[AndiAOE]

it seems like they used the caros as benchmark to design new units

[iNcog]

This thread hits the nail on the head. The stats for some of these African units are absolute whack and ridiculous.

Gascenya are absolutely ridiculous and so is the Mortar.

Definitely need to see a patch sooner to get some of these addressed. Especially with some refined builds, not only are your units good but you can get stupid amounts of them.

These African civilizations are too strong which makes it unfair to play them, meaning not fun to play them.

[dansil92]

musk with 4.5 speed, fine
musk with 14 range, fine
musk with 24 attack, fine

... musk with all 3... probably not ok

[gibson]

it seems like they used the caros as benchmark to design new units

Nah, gascenya are just better xD You essentially need pure skirm to beat them and if they just add one other unit type you're fucked.

[dansil92]

i really, really wish they'd made the african units more of the russia/china style of weaker cheaper units, instead of (yet again) making british redcoats look like nice boys with potential using their father's gun

[yoqpasa]

Unless you are playing an african civ you are just granting elo for free. I think I didn't win a single game yet against them with a balanced civ. Do we really deserve this? I spend my life waiting for an update to fix anything which ruins this game, and when they fix it it comes over an over on a different way.

[Abrahamburgerlincon]

musk with 4.5 speed, fine
musk with 14 range, fine
musk with 24 attack, fine

... musk with all 3... probably not ok

These musks have ranged resist

[dansil92]

musk with 4.5 speed, fine
musk with 14 range, fine
musk with 24 attack, fine

... musk with all 3... probably not ok

These musks have ranged resist

oh yes of course, how could i forget. they really really really need to stop giving heavy infantry range resist

[yoqpasa]

you can heal your hero in age 1, WHILE FIGHTING , and you can heal your sebastopol cannon WHILE SHOOTING.

[helln00]

edit:double posted

[helln00]

need to stop with all these units at 4.5 speed, I recall that the classic musk is at 4 speed, this unit is a skirm so 4 of speed is necessary no more

I do want to note that this thing has been around since the start of DE but no one cared since it was locked down behind a revolt.

In addtion, this thing is specifically a cassador, not just a skirm, so the 4.5 speed is apt I think, even has less range resist then a cassador as well

Also I dont think you are going to get them to remove the melee resist for the lifidi knights, Double armour is kinda the gimmick in the new DLC, I say increased cost + pop to 3 ( same as oromo

[Garja]

Speed is the distinctive feature of african units.
Aside from that, yes some stats are bad tuned.
Btw you can heal back the youruba cav to its max HP

[Mr_Bramboy]

The EGCTV tournament next weekend is going to be interesting as you can't really ban the broken African civs in an African-themed tournament. The civ rules are interesting, too.

In these games, the player using the African civ gets to narrow down the opponents choice by choosing any 7 civs that are excluded. From the remaining 10 civs, the non-African player chooses one. The aim of this is to show matchups featuring the African civs while increasing the chance of the African player having a reasonable chance of success. Once the field of civs is narrowed, the picks are made blind.

This is meant to incentivize people to play African civs. Perhaps Pesti expected another underpowered USA, but he'll be in for a surprise

[dansil92]

The EGCTV tournament next weekend is going to be interesting as you can't really ban the broken African civs in an African-themed tournament. The civ rules are interesting, too.

In these games, the player using the African civ gets to narrow down the opponents choice by choosing any 7 civs that are excluded. From the remaining 10 civs, the non-African player chooses one. The aim of this is to show matchups featuring the African civs while increasing the chance of the African player having a reasonable chance of success. Once the field of civs is narrowed, the picks are made blind.

This is meant to incentivize people to play African civs. Perhaps Pesti expected another underpowered USA, but he'll be in for a surprise

looking forward to ethiopian mirrors

[helln00]

The Oromo Warrior and Sudanese Dervish is some of the more relatively balanced units I think.

Oromo cost a ton and also need 3 pop, that 4 ROF also make them very akward to use.

The Dervish on the other hand is meant to close the distance while firing ( almost reverse kiting) and then engage in melee, I think you need 5 speed for that to even work as a strategy. I would say reduce the range to 12 to make it the same as a musk or a goon.

[speedflyer]

The Oromo Warrior and Sudanese Dervish is some of the more relatively balanced units I think.

Oromo cost a ton and also need 3 pop, that 4 ROF also make them very akward to use.

The Dervish on the other hand is meant to close the distance while firing ( almost reverse kiting) and then engage in melee, I think you need 5 speed for that to even work as a strategy. I would say reduce the range to 12 to make it the same as a musk or a goon.

50 range attack and then being a cuir in hand attack isnt "relatively balanced" unfortunately.

That being said , i think kévin could be in the dev team , he is more concerned than them

[duckzilla]

The Oromo Warrior and Sudanese Dervish is some of the more relatively balanced units I think.

Oromo cost a ton and also need 3 pop, that 4 ROF also make them very akward to use.

I want to second this. The Oromo is quite expensive, both in res and pop, and just an awkward unit. It also takes extra damage from skirms as well as dragoons - which happen to be the most used unit classes. Among the ethiopian units, it might be the most balanced one.

[Mitoe]

The Oromo Warrior and Sudanese Dervish is some of the more relatively balanced units I think.

Oromo cost a ton and also need 3 pop, that 4 ROF also make them very akward to use.

I want to second this. The Oromo is quite expensive, both in res and pop, and just an awkward unit. It also takes extra damage from skirms as well as dragoons - which happen to be the most used unit classes. Among the ethiopian units, it might be the most balanced one.

Actually, the Oromo does not take any bonus damage from skirmishers. They are treated like hand cavalry in the counter system.

[helln00]

The Oromo Warrior and Sudanese Dervish is some of the more relatively balanced units I think.

Oromo cost a ton and also need 3 pop, that 4 ROF also make them very akward to use.

The Dervish on the other hand is meant to close the distance while firing ( almost reverse kiting) and then engage in melee, I think you need 5 speed for that to even work as a strategy. I would say reduce the range to 12 to make it the same as a musk or a goon.

50 range attack and then being a cuir in hand attack isnt "relatively balanced" unfortunately.

That being said , i think kévin could be in the dev team , he is more concerned than them

Idk, 50 range atk with the ROF of a falc means that they get off one good shot and then are basically sniped if they try to get close to make use of their gimmick and since like a rifle rider ( looking at them more closely, I think its even the same model), they get countered hard by skirm and goon, I dont see them living.

Still pretty ridiculous stats, but still more balanced then Javs I feel

edit: correction, apparently they are treated as full hand cav. Maybe a change here is to add the goon tag to them, that should make them ok

edit: or give them the hakkapelit treatment, like 8-10 range. Nobody seems to think that unit is broken

[dansil92]

went into the editor to test oromo. heres some preliminary results
1. they are 100% hand cav when fired on by skirmishers, doing like 8 damage per shot (penalty + rr) so its very consistent
2. they still lose to an equal pop of skirms if they dont switch to melee

[uberjz]

Good list.

I also think the Chaos ability for EthiOPia is too strong and needs nerf.

Having a potential 21 vil shipment in age 1 also is too strong; your opponent basically can't commit to any early timing because you can completely "undo" any damage you take just by sending 1 card.

[speedflyer]

Good list.

I also think the Chaos ability for EthiOPia is too strong and needs nerf.

Having a potential 21 vil shipment in age 1 also is too strong; your opponent basically can't commit to any early timing because you can completely "undo" any damage you take just by sending 1 card.

How bad is your eco if you lost 21 vils tho ^^

[musketeer925]

I guess I'm waiting until next patch to play...

[CR_Joops]

i really, really wish they'd made the african units more of the russia/china style of weaker cheaper units, instead of (yet again) making british redcoats look like nice boys with potential using their father's gun

Hear, hear.

The power creep is ridiculous. Not so much a creep as a stomp. Why are the devs obsessed with making everything more powerful than what went before it.

It felt like they actually meant to make USA OP but goofed it somehow (how did they make a civ with an age III factory underpowered?!).