Otto vs Dutch
- Miyawaki Sakura
- Dragoon
- Posts: 279
- Joined: Jun 29, 2019
- ESO: Ms.Takagi
- Location: Seoul
Otto vs Dutch
Hi, i'm one of the noob player.
I've played Otto over the past few months.
Sadly i have the lowest win rate against Dutch.(almost 10% ㅜ.ㅜ)
It seems to me that Otto cannot beat Dutch without the water.
I tried the Jan/huss timing and FF.
But the results weren't good.
Age 2 timing was blocked by the wall + skirm + mm + 8 pike, and the 2 falc timing was defeated even after destroying two banks.
How do I play this mu?
plz, i need help
I've played Otto over the past few months.
Sadly i have the lowest win rate against Dutch.(almost 10% ㅜ.ㅜ)
It seems to me that Otto cannot beat Dutch without the water.
I tried the Jan/huss timing and FF.
But the results weren't good.
Age 2 timing was blocked by the wall + skirm + mm + 8 pike, and the 2 falc timing was defeated even after destroying two banks.
How do I play this mu?
plz, i need help
- scarm
- Howdah
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- ESO: Malebranche
Re: Otto vs Dutch
Unless that changed in DE, a simple tower ff with 1000c and mams should easily win that. just be diligent with your falcs and don't let them delete jans with their skirms.
- Miyawaki Sakura
- Dragoon
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- Joined: Jun 29, 2019
- ESO: Ms.Takagi
- Location: Seoul
Re: Otto vs Dutch
Thank you for your answerscarm wrote:Unless that changed in DE, a simple tower ff with 1000c and mams should easily win that. just be diligent with your falcs and don't let them delete jans with their skirms.
But in my experience
When the Mams arrive, Dutch has dozens of Reuters, and if he uses the spider_xande style, the infantry-focused Ottomans are defeated
- Challenger_Marco
- ESOC Media Team
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- ESO: challenger_marco
Re: Otto vs Dutch
From what I've seen from tourney games jains huss works & prolly tower ff.
Check this out: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=17946
Check this out: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=17946
- chronique
- Advanced Player
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- Location: France
Re: Otto vs Dutch
Tower ff falc first full jan siege bank, super hard for dutch
- scarm
- Howdah
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Re: Otto vs Dutch
Dutch should never be in a position to mass vs Otto. You can't really start stable i don't think, since you expect jans and want skirms. And if you execute it well dutch should be decently idled and at least lose a bank and a house with your first push. Then you just stand on their hunts or siege houses or production if possible, until your mams arrive, and go in for the final push. The key really just is to execute the ff well and be fast, and be diligent with your falcs. Especially since dutch does not have a 2 falc shipment, your falcs are just very very hard to deal with.
- Luciofrancosi
- Skirmisher
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- Location: UK
Re: Otto vs Dutch
Just be patient, you will get there.
Understand your winning and loosing conditions.
Otto has a very good early game, strong rush, strong timing and strong ff timing.
While Dutch on the other hand has a weak early game, but a very strong mid game economy due to their banks.
Your win condition is to kill them early or at damage them enough to take advantage on the long game.
On the other hand if your rush/timing doesn't do enough damage to cripple their economy you will be in for a world of pain!
One thing that might help is to siege houses, at least in my case I find myself getting housed as dutch a lot more often than with other civs, it could be because I have just started learning how to play the civ though
Understand your winning and loosing conditions.
Otto has a very good early game, strong rush, strong timing and strong ff timing.
While Dutch on the other hand has a weak early game, but a very strong mid game economy due to their banks.
Your win condition is to kill them early or at damage them enough to take advantage on the long game.
On the other hand if your rush/timing doesn't do enough damage to cripple their economy you will be in for a world of pain!
One thing that might help is to siege houses, at least in my case I find myself getting housed as dutch a lot more often than with other civs, it could be because I have just started learning how to play the civ though
"Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting"
Sun Tzu - The art of war
Sun Tzu - The art of war
Re: Otto vs Dutch
It's quite fun that after a lot of eco buff to Ottoman in EP/DE, no eco 2 rax rush/tower FF become the meta now.
In RE Ottoman used to play some jan abus/400w FF with stagecoach, which are a bit more "eco" than in DE.
In RE Ottoman used to play some jan abus/400w FF with stagecoach, which are a bit more "eco" than in DE.
- Luciofrancosi
- Skirmisher
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- Location: UK
Re: Otto vs Dutch
I have seen many otto players going for the stagecoach build, but most of them are just lazy and always go for the good old jan rush anyway.fei123456 wrote:It's quite fun that after a lot of eco buff to Ottoman in EP/DE, no eco 2 rax rush/tower FF become the meta now.
In RE Ottoman used to play some jan abus/400w FF with stagecoach, which are a bit more "eco" than in DE.
"Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting"
Sun Tzu - The art of war
Sun Tzu - The art of war
Re: Otto vs Dutch
This is the way.Luciofrancosi wrote:but most of them are just lazy and always go for the good old jan rush anyway.
- ShinkuroYukinari
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Re: Otto vs Dutch
It's almost impossible to win vs Dutch in Age 2 thanks to their new Politician which pretty much castrates your options. Veteran Halberdiers are no joke.
You have to go Age 3 and protect your cannons, which you should be able to do quicker thanks to that fact you're Ottomans and Dutch rushes aren't really a thing, especially vs a rush civ. If you can attack him whilst having an age advantage and Falconets, you win. If not, you're on a ticking clock to set up a "protect the cannons" composition before the Dutch eco hits in and you're stuck trying to verse a composition which is very well designed to give you a nightmare.
Alternatively, but this is VERY risky, go for an Abus rush while shipping Janissaries for coverage. Dutch players dont do Cavalry age 2 vs Ottomans, as they expect Jans or Hussars, not Abus guns which are so easily counterable. If the Dutch player manages to stop your initial push, you're kinda screwed. If not, you have a window during which the Dutch player has to scramble his eco for hussars, at which point you could switch to Jans and deny him as many hunts as possible, putting him in a precarious position while trying to counter you.
You have to go Age 3 and protect your cannons, which you should be able to do quicker thanks to that fact you're Ottomans and Dutch rushes aren't really a thing, especially vs a rush civ. If you can attack him whilst having an age advantage and Falconets, you win. If not, you're on a ticking clock to set up a "protect the cannons" composition before the Dutch eco hits in and you're stuck trying to verse a composition which is very well designed to give you a nightmare.
Alternatively, but this is VERY risky, go for an Abus rush while shipping Janissaries for coverage. Dutch players dont do Cavalry age 2 vs Ottomans, as they expect Jans or Hussars, not Abus guns which are so easily counterable. If the Dutch player manages to stop your initial push, you're kinda screwed. If not, you have a window during which the Dutch player has to scramble his eco for hussars, at which point you could switch to Jans and deny him as many hunts as possible, putting him in a precarious position while trying to counter you.
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- chronique
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Re: Otto vs Dutch
I think dutch can scout your foundery and you are dead ^^
- ShinkuroYukinari
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Re: Otto vs Dutch
Well I did say it is risky, precisely because it counts on the dutch player not realizing you went Abus until after he built the Barrack.chronique wrote:I think dutch can scout your foundery and you are dead ^^
My signature was removed, MOD ABUSE!
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- Howdah
- Posts: 1149
- Joined: Oct 16, 2019
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Re: Otto vs Dutch
Do Dutch players really go for the logistician though ?ShinkuroYukinari wrote:It's almost impossible to win vs Dutch in Age 2 thanks to their new Politician which pretty much castrates your options. Veteran Halberdiers are no joke.
You have to go Age 3 and protect your cannons, which you should be able to do quicker thanks to that fact you're Ottomans and Dutch rushes aren't really a thing, especially vs a rush civ. If you can attack him whilst having an age advantage and Falconets, you win. If not, you're on a ticking clock to set up a "protect the cannons" composition before the Dutch eco hits in and you're stuck trying to verse a composition which is very well designed to give you a nightmare.
Alternatively, but this is VERY risky, go for an Abus rush while shipping Janissaries for coverage. Dutch players dont do Cavalry age 2 vs Ottomans, as they expect Jans or Hussars, not Abus guns which are so easily counterable. If the Dutch player manages to stop your initial push, you're kinda screwed. If not, you have a window during which the Dutch player has to scramble his eco for hussars, at which point you could switch to Jans and deny him as many hunts as possible, putting him in a precarious position while trying to counter you.
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
Re: Otto vs Dutch
If you can force Dutch to go up with the logistician that seems like a win in itself since it basically costs them a bank compared to 400w. If Otto scout this they should be able to go up to fortress and go for jan/falc and Dutch basically lost a bank for nothing.
Age 2 abus still die in 2 shots to the TC so I don't think they're any use in pushing into a Dutch player who's turtling in base.
Age 2 abus still die in 2 shots to the TC so I don't think they're any use in pushing into a Dutch player who's turtling in base.
Re: Otto vs Dutch
I think you can try otto church fast industrial.you will get 15 nizam fussiliors at age 3 which is best civ to protect artillery against cav.then go age 4 instantly and get 3 great bombard, very good against every thing except cavs.and with ur nizams special chrage attack you will tear up any cavs gets near ur bombard.skirms cant stand bombard. And with superior range and seize you can destroy his bank and houses.best things about this strategy is that they need do come near bombrd and cavs cant do that bcz of nizams.and if ur lucky can get out mam or age up with 3 spahi you get protection against culv s too. everything compliments each other. But you do need to survive age 3 push with nizam and minimen.and have enough troops to protect 3 bombard.
Here is the guide
viewtopic.php?t=21801
Here is the guide
viewtopic.php?t=21801
Re: Otto vs Dutch
I remember a Otto saveyourskill vs Dutch Rafa game from years ago where he went for a Jan / gren timing and it seemed really strong. Probably even better now that Grens are slightly buffed.
mad cuz bad
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- Pro Player
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Re: Otto vs Dutch
probably std tower ff with jans + 2falcs into 1kwood 1kgold for 2nd tc and transitioning into starting abus production
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