Otto vs Dutch

[Miyawaki Sakura]

Hi, i'm one of the noob player.

I've played Otto over the past few months.

Sadly i have the lowest win rate against Dutch.(almost 10% ㅜ.ㅜ)

It seems to me that Otto cannot beat Dutch without the water.

I tried the Jan/huss timing and FF.

But the results weren't good.

Age 2 timing was blocked by the wall + skirm + mm + 8 pike, and the 2 falc timing was defeated even after destroying two banks.

How do I play this mu?

plz, i need help

[scarm]

Unless that changed in DE, a simple tower ff with 1000c and mams should easily win that. just be diligent with your falcs and don't let them delete jans with their skirms.

[Miyawaki Sakura]

Unless that changed in DE, a simple tower ff with 1000c and mams should easily win that. just be diligent with your falcs and don't let them delete jans with their skirms.

Thank you for your answer

But in my experience

When the Mams arrive, Dutch has dozens of Reuters, and if he uses the spider_xande style, the infantry-focused Ottomans are defeated

[Challenger_Marco]

From what I've seen from tourney games jains huss works & prolly tower ff.
Check this out: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=17946

[chronique]

Tower ff falc first full jan siege bank, super hard for dutch

[scarm]

Dutch should never be in a position to mass vs Otto. You can't really start stable i don't think, since you expect jans and want skirms. And if you execute it well dutch should be decently idled and at least lose a bank and a house with your first push. Then you just stand on their hunts or siege houses or production if possible, until your mams arrive, and go in for the final push. The key really just is to execute the ff well and be fast, and be diligent with your falcs. Especially since dutch does not have a 2 falc shipment, your falcs are just very very hard to deal with.

[Luciofrancosi]

Just be patient, you will get there.
Understand your winning and loosing conditions.
Otto has a very good early game, strong rush, strong timing and strong ff timing.
While Dutch on the other hand has a weak early game, but a very strong mid game economy due to their banks.
Your win condition is to kill them early or at damage them enough to take advantage on the long game.
On the other hand if your rush/timing doesn't do enough damage to cripple their economy you will be in for a world of pain!
One thing that might help is to siege houses, at least in my case I find myself getting housed as dutch a lot more often than with other civs, it could be because I have just started learning how to play the civ though

[fei123456]

It's quite fun that after a lot of eco buff to Ottoman in EP/DE, no eco 2 rax rush/tower FF become the meta now.
In RE Ottoman used to play some jan abus/400w FF with stagecoach, which are a bit more "eco" than in DE.

[Luciofrancosi]

It's quite fun that after a lot of eco buff to Ottoman in EP/DE, no eco 2 rax rush/tower FF become the meta now.
In RE Ottoman used to play some jan abus/400w FF with stagecoach, which are a bit more "eco" than in DE.

I have seen many otto players going for the stagecoach build, but most of them are just lazy and always go for the good old jan rush anyway.

[fei123456]

but most of them are just lazy and always go for the good old jan rush anyway.

This is the way.

[ShinkuroYukinari]

It's almost impossible to win vs Dutch in Age 2 thanks to their new Politician which pretty much castrates your options. Veteran Halberdiers are no joke.
You have to go Age 3 and protect your cannons, which you should be able to do quicker thanks to that fact you're Ottomans and Dutch rushes aren't really a thing, especially vs a rush civ. If you can attack him whilst having an age advantage and Falconets, you win. If not, you're on a ticking clock to set up a "protect the cannons" composition before the Dutch eco hits in and you're stuck trying to verse a composition which is very well designed to give you a nightmare.

Alternatively, but this is VERY risky, go for an Abus rush while shipping Janissaries for coverage. Dutch players dont do Cavalry age 2 vs Ottomans, as they expect Jans or Hussars, not Abus guns which are so easily counterable. If the Dutch player manages to stop your initial push, you're kinda screwed. If not, you have a window during which the Dutch player has to scramble his eco for hussars, at which point you could switch to Jans and deny him as many hunts as possible, putting him in a precarious position while trying to counter you.

[chronique]

I think dutch can scout your foundery and you are dead ^^

[ShinkuroYukinari]

I think dutch can scout your foundery and you are dead ^^

Well I did say it is risky, precisely because it counts on the dutch player not realizing you went Abus until after he built the Barrack.

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

It's almost impossible to win vs Dutch in Age 2 thanks to their new Politician which pretty much castrates your options. Veteran Halberdiers are no joke.
You have to go Age 3 and protect your cannons, which you should be able to do quicker thanks to that fact you're Ottomans and Dutch rushes aren't really a thing, especially vs a rush civ. If you can attack him whilst having an age advantage and Falconets, you win. If not, you're on a ticking clock to set up a "protect the cannons" composition before the Dutch eco hits in and you're stuck trying to verse a composition which is very well designed to give you a nightmare.

Alternatively, but this is VERY risky, go for an Abus rush while shipping Janissaries for coverage. Dutch players dont do Cavalry age 2 vs Ottomans, as they expect Jans or Hussars, not Abus guns which are so easily counterable. If the Dutch player manages to stop your initial push, you're kinda screwed. If not, you have a window during which the Dutch player has to scramble his eco for hussars, at which point you could switch to Jans and deny him as many hunts as possible, putting him in a precarious position while trying to counter you.

Do Dutch players really go for the logistician though ?

[Thrar]

If you can force Dutch to go up with the logistician that seems like a win in itself since it basically costs them a bank compared to 400w. If Otto scout this they should be able to go up to fortress and go for jan/falc and Dutch basically lost a bank for nothing.

Age 2 abus still die in 2 shots to the TC so I don't think they're any use in pushing into a Dutch player who's turtling in base.

[Ean25]

I think you can try otto church fast industrial.you will get 15 nizam fussiliors at age 3 which is best civ to protect artillery against cav.then go age 4 instantly and get 3 great bombard, very good against every thing except cavs.and with ur nizams special chrage attack you will tear up any cavs gets near ur bombard.skirms cant stand bombard. And with superior range and seize you can destroy his bank and houses.best things about this strategy is that they need do come near bombrd and cavs cant do that bcz of nizams.and if ur lucky can get out mam or age up with 3 spahi you get protection against culv s too. everything compliments each other. But you do need to survive age 3 push with nizam and minimen.and have enough troops to protect 3 bombard.

Here is the guide
viewtopic.php?t=21801

[n0el]

I remember a Otto saveyourskill vs Dutch Rafa game from years ago where he went for a Jan / gren timing and it seemed really strong. Probably even better now that Grens are slightly buffed.

[Hazza54321]

probably std tower ff with jans + 2falcs into 1kwood 1kgold for 2nd tc and transitioning into starting abus production

[jesus3]

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