treaty tier

[deleted_user0]

Top treaty players believed nwp was a good card to send in treaty till like a year ago, maybe some still think it is... The only treaty players not clueless about the game are those that play supremacy too.

Yeah and most sup players believed the confucian academy was a better option than the porcelain tower, maybe some still think it is...

I miss the treaty folk.
Its not the same to make fun of someone who just isnt there anymore.

About as fun as sup players thinking theyre superior, trying to play treaty vs a good player and lose in 5 minutes without taking any map control

none of the top sup players played china (only jap com did, and they have weird meta). the porcelain tower build is not new, though some people may think it is. and there is a big difference between something which is slightly subpar as a standard build (but still viable vs all in rushes and such) and using a card that is COMPLETELY useless.

treaty up to 20 needs some expertise, treaty hm 40 is just too ez...

[musketjr]

Yeah and most sup players believed the confucian academy was a better option than the porcelain tower, maybe some still think it is...


About as fun as sup players thinking theyre superior, trying to play treaty vs a good player and lose in 5 minutes without taking any map control

none of the top sup players played china (only jap com did, and they have weird meta). the porcelain tower build is not new, though some people may think it is. and there is a big difference between something which is slightly subpar as a standard build (but still viable vs all in rushes and such) and using a card that is COMPLETELY useless.

treaty up to 20 needs some expertise, treaty hm 40 is just too ez...

FU 1v1 me nr 55

[musketjr]

from what i remember...

top tier would be

france - broken gend/sick eco/120 mili pop
china - age 6 stats on their units (old han are age 5 stats in age 4 etc) vs age 5 units from everyone else, + big army
japan - abusable with some infinite consulate pike + yumi bo + infinite flamings makes for a practically impossible to counter army

then you have strong but not quite as good civs, being PORT, RUSSIA, GERMAN, SPAIN
then you have bad civs which are played in gimmicky ways, like aztec pure skulls, sioux pure dogs, aztec pure eagles and shipping infinite 1k coin

i started to like iro cuz you can autowin the cannon wars without really doing anything, but their eco lacks.

[deleted_user0]

none of the top sup players played china (only jap com did, and they have weird meta). the porcelain tower build is not new, though some people may think it is. and there is a big difference between something which is slightly subpar as a standard build (but still viable vs all in rushes and such) and using a card that is COMPLETELY useless.

treaty up to 20 needs some expertise, treaty hm 40 is just too ez...

FU 1v1 me nr 55

its treaty, you nilla scrub

[adderbrain5]

As I said, Japan''s eco is OP. Still European troops aren''t trained instantly so you can''t really rely on that. It''s easy to say: ??waste your entire army on one unit" - your soldiers may be needed somewhere else really.
Yabusame aren''t so useful anyways because you have OP flaming arrows to kill opponents'' artillery and OP ashis and yumis to kill cav.

one culver in rapes a whole batch of arrows

[adderbrain5]

from what i remember...

top tier would be

france - broken gend/sick eco/120 mili pop
china - age 6 stats on their units (old han are age 5 stats in age 4 etc) vs age 5 units from everyone else, + big army
japan - abusable with some infinite consulate pike + yumi bo + infinite flamings makes for a practically impossible to counter army

then you have strong but not quite as good civs, being PORT, RUSSIA, GERMAN, SPAIN
then you have bad civs which are played in gimmicky ways, like aztec pure skulls, sioux pure dogs, aztec pure eagles and shipping infinite 1k coin

i started to like iro cuz you can autowin the cannon wars without really doing anything, but their eco lacks.?

i 55 I score top every game with iro

[adderbrain5]

I love how pure sup players often have no real idea of true civ potential

[jaype22]

Yeah and most sup players believed the confucian academy was a better option than the porcelain tower, maybe some still think it is...


About as fun as sup players thinking theyre superior, trying to play treaty vs a good player and lose in 5 minutes without taking any map control

none of the top sup players played china (only jap com did, and they have weird meta). the porcelain tower build is not new, though some people may think it is. and there is a big difference between something which is slightly subpar as a standard build (but still viable vs all in rushes and such) and using a card that is COMPLETELY useless.

treaty up to 20 needs some expertise, treaty hm 40 is just too ez...

If its so ez why does no top sup player put up a decent fight vs a good treaty player?

[momuuu]

Umeu you have no clue really. Id bet all my betting points on any old top tr player (dont know how the current community is doing) raping you in a best of whatever without you even winning a game.

About the porcelain tower thing: what do you have to say about the sup community only recently figuring out that TPs are actually insane?

[deleted_user0]

How is that recently? People have been making tps for years. I was doing it all the time 4 years ago and i defo wasnt the first. Its just that now gs wrote a guide about it and the lower ranked know it too...

Before that tps were more expensive so some strats didnt exist.

Also i have played with some of the best in recent treaty and i kept up easy. In nr40 that is. I have no clue about old treaty players or about tr20, but i have played enough of those games to know its alot easier...

U actually only have to look art elo, among the highest ranked treaty players are like veni and his mates... Sup players

[jaype22]

Also i have played with some of the best in recent treaty and i kept up easy. In nr40 that is. I have no clue about old treaty players or about tr20, but i have played enough of those games to know its alot easier...

U actually only have to look art elo, among the highest ranked treaty players are like veni and his mates... Sup players

With whom did you play?

Also Veni only played nr55 Orinoco which is only fighting at one place, super slow paced and requires no map control skills.

[Good ol Ivan]

Eh, if he wanted a game with skill he wouldn't have played treaty in the first place.

[deleted_user0]

Also i have played with some of the best in recent treaty and i kept up easy. In nr40 that is. I have no clue about old treaty players or about tr20, but i have played enough of those games to know its alot easier...

U actually only have to look art elo, among the highest ranked treaty players are like veni and his mates... Sup players

With whom did you play?

Also Veni only played nr55 Orinoco which is only fighting at one place, super slow paced and requires no map control skills.

A few games with bager and some others i dont remember
Also dicktator and cooper.

[momuuu]

How is that recently? People have been making tps for years. I was doing it all the time 4 years ago and i defo wasnt the first. Its just that now gs wrote a guide about it and the lower ranked know it too...

Before that tps were more expensive so some strats didnt exist.

Also i have played with some of the best in recent treaty and i kept up easy. In nr40 that is. I have no clue about old treaty players or about tr20, but i have played enough of those games to know its alot easier...

U actually only have to look art elo, among the highest ranked treaty players are like veni and his mates... Sup players

I took a 2 year break so I guess 3 years ago is pretty recent to me. Thats about when german TP semis started to become the meta over TPless meta.

[jaype22]

With whom did you play?

Also Veni only played nr55 Orinoco which is only fighting at one place, super slow paced and requires no map control skills.

A few games with bager and some others i dont remember
Also dicktator and cooper.

I dont even know who cooper is, but I doubt you could keep up with guys like dicktator when samwise and h2o lost to them in like 5 minutes.

[Jaeger]

A few games with bager and some others i dont remember
Also dicktator and cooper.

I dont even know who cooper is, but I doubt you could keep up with guys like dicktator when samwise and h2o lost to them in like 5 minutes.

Is was that game recorded or streamed? i wanna see it

Also, dicktator also plays sup

[jaype22]

I dont even know who cooper is, but I doubt you could keep up with guys like dicktator when samwise and h2o lost to them in like 5 minutes.

Is was that game recorded or streamed? i wanna see it

Also, dicktator also plays sup

Yeah it was streamed, but I doubt anyone saved it, also it wasnt really worth watching.
There you can see the ELO, its some time ago: http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... wise12&amp't=age3yTROverall&'m=latestmatch

Pretty sure umeu is just talking bs tho

[Jaeger]

Is was that game recorded or streamed? i wanna see it

Also, dicktator also plays sup

Yeah it was streamed, but I doubt anyone saved it, also it wasnt really worth watching.
There you can see the ELO, its some time ago: http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... wise12&amp't=age3yTROverall&'m=latestmatch

Pretty sure umeu is just talking bs tho

Well I think its on a recent thread, h2o was saying how there was this treaty pro who thought o himself as good but h2o and another guy beat him in a tournament.

[jaype22]

Yeah it was streamed, but I doubt anyone saved it, also it wasnt really worth watching.
There you can see the ELO, its some time ago: http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... wise12&amp't=age3yTROverall&'m=latestmatch

Pretty sure umeu is just talking bs tho

Well I think its on a recent thread, h2o was saying how there was this treaty pro who thought o himself as good but h2o and another guy beat him in a tournament.

No idea what/who youre talking about mate

[deleted_user0]

How is that recently? People have been making tps for years. I was doing it all the time 4 years ago and i defo wasnt the first. Its just that now gs wrote a guide about it and the lower ranked know it too...

Before that tps were more expensive so some strats didnt exist.

Also i have played with some of the best in recent treaty and i kept up easy. In nr40 that is. I have no clue about old treaty players or about tr20, but i have played enough of those games to know its alot easier...

U actually only have to look art elo, among the highest ranked treaty players are like veni and his mates... Sup players

I took a 2 year break so I guess 3 years ago is pretty recent to me. Thats about when german TP semis started to become the meta over TPless meta.

Nah... Its just that most top players played the fp which was different. With many players leaving, its like the dark ages starting, because so much knowledge is gone. But that making tps is good, even captains on nilla knew 4 years ago, aka me, and i wasnt the first. But again, not recognizing what is most optimal is different to being superstitious about scores and gather rates, its the equivalent of thinking that the arsenal skirm upgrade gives times 3 vs all infantry or something similar

The best ranked treaty players are dicktator and ownage, and theyre decent players in sup, but not top at all. It took them hundreds of game to master sup too, while for sup players to master treaty, they actually just have to unlearn some things to deal with the counter intuitive macro but there is nothing going on in treaty that doesnt really happen in sup. The latter is obviously way more complex.

[jaype22]

The best ranked treaty players are dicktator and ownage, and theyre decent players in sup, but not top at all. It took them hundreds of game to master sup too, while for sup players to master treaty, they actually just have to unlearn some things to deal with the counter intuitive macro but there is nothing going on in treaty that doesnt really happen in sup. The latter is obviously way more complex.

It''s not like rank matters a lot these times with all the point trading and obviously smaller treaty community (though dicktator is the best treaty player atm, king never was).
I don''t think that sup is way more complex, both game modes are kinda linear which means there''s always room to improve somewhere, and it''s a game of who makes the least mistakes every single time.
There is still no sup player who was really good at andes (the best treaty map), orinoco/deccan are just slow ass maps, the first one even doesn''t require map control skills.

[deleted_user0]

Not sure what u mean with map control skills, care to elaborate?

And dicktator doesnt have the best mechanichs imo. But whatever, i think its simple logic that a gamemode where you have to macro, micro, allocate vills, and make split second card decisions that actually matter, all at the same time, is far more complicated than a mode where micro and macro are mostly seperated into 2 stages and where its ok to lose an army, so the tactical part is alot less prominent, as well as the strategical part, because it eliminates such options as greedy colonial, fast fotress, fast indus, revolution, delayed waterboom, etc etc.

[Goodspeed]

(facepalm) Good thread guys

[jaype22]

Not sure what u mean with map control skills, care to elaborate?

And dicktator doesnt have the best mechanichs imo. But whatever, i think its simple logic that a gamemode where you have to macro, micro, allocate vills, and make split second card decisions that actually matter, all at the same time, is far more complicated than a mode where micro and macro are mostly seperated into 2 stages and where its ok to lose an army, so the tactical part is alot less prominent, as well as the strategical part, because it eliminates such options as greedy colonial, fast fotress, fast indus, revolution, delayed waterboom, etc etc.

Map control skills= wall and take control of the entire map directly after the treaty has ended, deal with split pushes or jumps or do that by yourself, that''s more work than you''d think and 90% of all players aren''t good at it.

Macro, micro, allocating vills and making split second card decision also all apply to treaty, especially if it''s fast paced andes. I guess you didn''t play it enough or with some deccan 1st lt. players (well thats comparable to those sup 3v3s on deccan). I have to agree that water isn''t played in treaty but you always have to play differently in every game due to different team cards (sometimes culvs have to be shot by 3 of yours to be killed which is a huge deal, team eco cards which decide how to deal with your opponent) or to different map layouts (cliffs and trade routes).


You''re right, dicktator isn''t that great at sup, he''s mostly playing the standard civs like french and semi-ffs most of the times.

[mamapapaisop]

Tbh treaty is way more easy to play.. you have so much time to prepare while in sup u really don t have time..
Of course when treaty ends its unpredoctable what happens and you need to think about which card will be most effective but in the end ur card order is clear and in the end u just use those infinitve cards..
In treaty you are also protected by walls which gives you way more time to react and to counter while in sup one wrong decision may kill you...
No hate i like both, treaty and sup, but in the end its way more easy to get good in treaty than to get good in sup