Japanese anti-Aztec build
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)
Lol, you overate ashi so hard, and notice why people play jap on re and not ep.
You cant just make ashi vs spain and win, same with china, their cav are ranged in melee so ashi are still shooting. You also have to bear in mind those civs are so much faster than jap, like 830falcs with spain is hard to deal with, same for otto, lets not forget ashi are poor anticav and a poor unit before upgrades and most games you cant send them . @yurashic
You cant just make ashi vs spain and win, same with china, their cav are ranged in melee so ashi are still shooting. You also have to bear in mind those civs are so much faster than jap, like 830falcs with spain is hard to deal with, same for otto, lets not forget ashi are poor anticav and a poor unit before upgrades and most games you cant send them . @yurashic
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)
China reks Jap with the all powerful 9 pike 8 cho 7 steppe semi - the single greatest strategy ever strategized.
Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)
You can buy time in in many ways with Japan vs straight FFs. Raids, bit of walling, etc. Also can do vill pulls, MM card, etc. As long as you have a decent start you shouldn't have problem vs FFs (China one tho is very good and still sub 8 min time).
And ashi are still good, pricy but good. 0.5 speed, +1 attack, +20 hp, they do compensate for the extra cost. Melee attack might not be good but they still have .20 melee res which is what counter vs cav. Plus with extra speed and attack (and yumi attack) Japan kites better vs cav in general.
And ashi are still good, pricy but good. 0.5 speed, +1 attack, +20 hp, they do compensate for the extra cost. Melee attack might not be good but they still have .20 melee res which is what counter vs cav. Plus with extra speed and attack (and yumi attack) Japan kites better vs cav in general.
Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)
Hazza54321 wrote:Lol, you overate ashi so hard, and notice why people play jap on re and not ep.
You cant just make ashi vs spain and win, same with china, their cav are ranged in melee so ashi are still shooting. You also have to bear in mind those civs are so much faster than jap, like 830falcs with spain is hard to deal with, same for otto, lets not forget ashi are poor anticav and a poor unit before upgrades and most games you cant send them . @yurashic
People play Japan on RE more than on EP because bad maps don't matter for Japan.
Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
I think overall what nerfs the most Japan the most on EP is the fact that maps tend to be relatively small and overall more narrowed so can easily deny the japan player shrining. Lack of water for 3 boats seems to be a nerf in some extent too. Also yeah as yurashic has mentionned Japan is a safe pick on RE
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Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
Rikikipu wrote:I think overall what nerfs the most Japan the most on EP is the fact that maps tend to be relatively small and overall more narrowed so can easily deny the japan player shrining. Lack of water for 3 boats seems to be a nerf in some extent too. Also yeah as yurashic has mentionned Japan is a safe pick on RE
yea this i agree with alot. RE maps were more open and had less food in general. Dont wanna sound like a dragging this out but ep maps really hurt japan due to layout and res.
Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
I could make a seperate thread, but since we're talking about Japan here.
How do you guys take on Japan? I find myself often losing against them. Not being able to kill them early and afther that it seems basicly gg. Only chinese Flamethrower build works for me. I tried the chinese semi-ff ( @deleted_user4 ), but it didn't work, maybe because I went cho-steppe-pike, which makes sieging shrines late.
Anyway, when I play Japan I notice the same. Other people try to take shrines down or pressure, but berries close to tc is good vs raiding. Sieging shrines takes time (finding and destroying) and in the end they only cost 75w in most cases. Which still gives japan the time to boom.
Thus, to make it brief (if still possible), any suggestions would be appreciated.
How do you guys take on Japan? I find myself often losing against them. Not being able to kill them early and afther that it seems basicly gg. Only chinese Flamethrower build works for me. I tried the chinese semi-ff ( @deleted_user4 ), but it didn't work, maybe because I went cho-steppe-pike, which makes sieging shrines late.
Anyway, when I play Japan I notice the same. Other people try to take shrines down or pressure, but berries close to tc is good vs raiding. Sieging shrines takes time (finding and destroying) and in the end they only cost 75w in most cases. Which still gives japan the time to boom.
Thus, to make it brief (if still possible), any suggestions would be appreciated.
To see a world in a grain of saind, A heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
The two ways that people generally play against Japan are sieging shrines while going to Fortress Age, or playing it very aggressive in Colonial Age (xbow/pike rush was very common a while back). The Japanese boom very quickly, so unless you're British you probably cannot afford to just chill out in Colonial Age while slowly sieging shrines.
A hussar semi FF is actually viable as well. If you think that you can manage to use your hussars to effectively force his monks to stay defensive and not shrine all over the map, he won't be able to boom heavily. Instead of just sieging his shrines with pikemen, you deny shrines with hussars and also siege a bit with your hussars. Stagecoach is generally also not bad since Japan is not very interested in trading posts.
A hussar semi FF is actually viable as well. If you think that you can manage to use your hussars to effectively force his monks to stay defensive and not shrine all over the map, he won't be able to boom heavily. Instead of just sieging his shrines with pikemen, you deny shrines with hussars and also siege a bit with your hussars. Stagecoach is generally also not bad since Japan is not very interested in trading posts.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
Vs jap I do a few things as China.
1) early tp 9 pike 8 cho 7 steppe 700g semi
2) early tp 7 steppe 700w semi (dont send 700c - age to age II with 1 vill on summer palace and mine lots of gold)
1) early tp 9 pike 8 cho 7 steppe 700g semi
2) early tp 7 steppe 700w semi (dont send 700c - age to age II with 1 vill on summer palace and mine lots of gold)
Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
You can also just do a normal ff and have a decent shot of winning in early age 3 regardless of what the jap player does.
Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
Oke, this is very helpful. Very agressive (sieging some shrines being to little) or straight FF. And kill the monks with cav if possilbe.
@deleted_user4
Do you mean you don't make a house/get northeren refugees, just go 10/10?
1) early tp 9 pike 8 cho 7 steppe 700g semi
@deleted_user4
Do you mean you don't make a house/get northeren refugees, just go 10/10?
To see a world in a grain of saind, A heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
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Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
Since China has a set wood crate start you can always early tp and make just 1 village and still send refugees. I like this opening more than two villages
Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
Yes, that's what I often do as well. Just thought you might want to age up asap.
To see a world in a grain of saind, A heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
Hold infinity in the palm of you hand, And eternity in an hour
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
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Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
10/10s, 13/10s, 12/10s are generally pretty bad
Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)
Hazza54321 wrote:Lol, you overate ashi so hard, and notice why people play jap on re and not ep.
You cant just make ashi vs spain and win, same with china, their cav are ranged in melee so ashi are still shooting. You also have to bear in mind those civs are so much faster than jap, like 830falcs with spain is hard to deal with, same for otto, lets not forget ashi are poor anticav and a poor unit before upgrades and most games you cant send them . @yurashic
Vs spain: boom 20 shrines, send CM, call 4+4+11+11mm to kill cannons, ez win
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Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
couprider1-0hazza54321
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Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
well actually there are some game between h2o and kingofosmane japan vs spain from like 2 years ago on ryans stream. he pretty much went 600w 4 4 late double and flanked the spanish army from 2-3 sides and won
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Re: Japanese strat(Anti aztec build)
fei123456 wrote:Hazza54321 wrote:Lol, you overate ashi so hard, and notice why people play jap on re and not ep.
You cant just make ashi vs spain and win, same with china, their cav are ranged in melee so ashi are still shooting. You also have to bear in mind those civs are so much faster than jap, like 830falcs with spain is hard to deal with, same for otto, lets not forget ashi are poor anticav and a poor unit before upgrades and most games you cant send them . @yurashic
Vs spain: boom 20 shrines, send CM, call 4+4+11+11mm to kill cannons, ez win
Instead you get rektvby a good spain player who revos and crushes your pathetic army because you wasted a card.
Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
You can send cm until you see his cannons. Spain won't do too much in 40 secs.
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Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
fei123456 wrote:You can send cm until you see his cannons. Spain won't do too much in 40 secs.
Thats risky, you may not have a card, and if youre always saving a card, its basically the same. Simply shouldnt work vs spain that doesnt do piro.
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Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
if spain ages by 6.50 to 7.10 its unlikely that hes going to revolt behind that because he will have a super bad eco and spain hasnt got 1000 gold
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Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
sebnan12 wrote:if spain ages by 6.50 to 7.10 its unlikely that hes going to revolt behind that because he will have a super bad eco and spain hasnt got 1000 gold
No reason to have a bad eco, the eco is exactly the same, but just 2 vils less. Its not a huge deal
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Re: Japanese anti-Aztec build
well if hes aging at 6:40 -7:10 hes likely doing streight ff and if theres no push coming soon hes either doing a bad fi or massing up so u have a small window to chose wether u send cm or not.. i guess its very hard for japan to decide but i think their favored imo
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