Best Counter To Otto Players?

[curvaFENER]

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[pecelot]

So just semi musk or ça depending on the situation.

Caçadores?

[bwinner]

So just semi musk or ça depending on the situation.

Caçadores?

fuck this french auto-correction, I mean cav ofc^^

[Sargsyan]

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[macacoalbino]

One general tip I have to beat otto is pressuring his explorer in age 1. When the game starts go full kaiser and rightclick the TP he is going to build. Depending on the map you can remove half the explorer hp until hes back in the base. Doing this you deny him two important things:
1. Treasures - specially food, which will decrease their ageup time and may drastically change the outcome of a game (think about 140f otto in gp)
2.Scouting information - since otto has no scout unit apart from the explorer, his scouting will be hindered meaning he might miss a safe hunt later on in the game or maybe some other resource that you'll be able to sneak vills into.

Ps: after he returns to his base he will try to go out again, you have to guess where he went and keep the pressure up, dont ever let go of his explorer until you have to build a tp or until he has units out.

[curvaFENER]

@Sargsyan you are just imbecile like your country.

[Cometk]

@Sargsyan Please don't post images like that, they're quite offensive. and @curvaFENER, I understand your frustration but please don't resort to insults as well!

[tedere12]

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[milku3459]

oos

[hleung]

Remove kebab!

Last time I check, this is an AOE3 forum, not EU4

Anyway, imo Russia should counter quite well against Otto, but requires a bit of scouting during transition. If Otto does jan rush or goes for an age 2 agenda, Russia should be able to hold the initial push/containment with good herding and in-base BH whilst the cossack shipments can be used for raids to cripple otto's eco. If the Otto player does not push, then go for the usual Russian build and look for an opportunity to sneak in an age up for the 2 falc and other better units and shipments in age 3. If the Otto player goes for FF (that's why a bit of extra scouting is necessary), imo Russia should be able to follow with its own FF or semi-FF. In the long run, the Russian player should be able to out-mass and out-eco the Otto player.

Please do correct me if I said something wrong about the MU.

[lemmings121]

Remove kebab!

Last time I check, this is an AOE3 forum, not EU4

Anyway, imo Russia should counter quite well against Otto, but requires a bit of scouting during transition. If Otto does jan rush or goes for an age 2 agenda, Russia should be able to hold the initial push/containment with good herding and in-base BH whilst the cossack shipments can be used for raids to cripple otto's eco. If the Otto player does not push, then go for the usual Russian build and look for an opportunity to sneak in an age up for the 2 falc and other better units and shipments in age 3. If the Otto player goes for FF (that's why a bit of extra scouting is necessary), imo Russia should be able to follow with its own FF or semi-FF. In the long run, the Russian player should be able to out-mass and out-eco the Otto player.

Please do correct me if I said something wrong about the MU.

imo oto best bet vs russia is ff, i'm not sure if russia has the time to FF, i think oto will have 5spahi and 4huss from the up in your base before you are up to fortress, might be hard to survive.

[hleung]

imo oto best bet vs russia is ff, i'm not sure if russia has the time to FF, i think oto will have 5spahi and 4huss from the up in your base before you are up to fortress, might be hard to survive.

In that case, suvorov ff might actually work for russia, but I am not so sure about it. If the 5 spahi/4 huss comes a bit too early, then 2 in-base BH + strelet mass + MM + TC fire should be able to hold the timing push. Not sure about it though - haven't actually done that before.

[Kazamkikaz]

One general tip I have to beat otto is pressuring his explorer in age 1. When the game starts go full kaiser and rightclick the TP he is going to build. Depending on the map you can remove half the explorer hp until hes back in the base. Doing this you deny him two important things:
1. Treasures - specially food, which will decrease their ageup time and may drastically change the outcome of a game (think about 140f otto in gp)
2.Scouting information - since otto has no scout unit apart from the explorer, his scouting will be hindered meaning he might miss a safe hunt later on in the game or maybe some other resource that you'll be able to sneak vills into.

Ps: after he returns to his base he will try to go out again, you have to guess where he went and keep the pressure up, dont ever let go of his explorer until you have to build a tp or until he has units out.

Pára de viajar veio, qual é o sentido de matar o explorador otomano pra evitar ele de pegar tesouro ou explorar se de qualquer forma ele vai passar de era bem cedo e fazer o fb, vc que deveria tá procurando tesouro de comida pra passar de era cedo e procurar próximas caças e minas e não ir atrás do pobre explorador otomano


Mod Translation (with the help from Google; might not be that accurate): What is the point of killing the Ottoman explorer to prevent him from taking treasure or exploring if he will get away from it anyway. In early game, you should be looking for food treasures to click up asap and look for the next hunts and mines instead of going after the poor Ottoman explorer.

Mod Edit: This forum is English only. While we understand it might not be the easiest way for everyone to express his/her thoughts at the finest, it is for the sake of inclusion that we should write in English on ESOC forums, as English is currently the lingua franca. It also helps with moderation. Thanks!

[sirmusket]

Remove kebab!

Aren't you Albanian

[Kazamkikaz]

Last time I check, this is an AOE3 forum, not EU4

Anyway, imo Russia should counter quite well against Otto, but requires a bit of scouting during transition. If Otto does jan rush or goes for an age 2 agenda, Russia should be able to hold the initial push/containment with good herding and in-base BH whilst the cossack shipments can be used for raids to cripple otto's eco.

Why Russia should play defensively (in-base BH) versus Otto if 5cossacs (+4 cossacs) >3 huss and 13 strelets>5 jani ,Russia age up in almost same time as otto (russia click up in 2min 45 to 3min 05, otto click up in 2min 35-55 some thing like this, depend the map any way doesnt matter) Russia build BH in discovery age not colonial, any strelets/cossacs with few musk composition beat any jan/abus/huss colonial strategie, make 10 strelets send 5 cossacs, send 4cossacs/13 strelets or send 700w for stable keep going.
What i mean is when Otto make FF with 4 huss option he will mak only 5 jani on rax until age 3 but if you rush him he can not make even 3 jan, 5mamelukos cost 1000c and 5 spaghi cost 1000f , no way to send one of this card asap in fortress in first shipment, so otto has to send 8 jani first and 2 cannon after so mass russian infantry to deal with jani and cossacs to deal with 2 cannon and mamelukos, in case you need age just age with fast option and if u lost BH fb you rebuild and keep going, make cav archier and halbs help versus spaghi or mamelukos, cav archier is quite slow versus cav, so make semi ff (sending 5 cossacs +700c) not good choice if u will depend of cav archier in fortress.
Same thing when Russia play defensively versus India, why ? unless you know India will go 10/10 rush
Russia FF is not that strong because the only special unit is the oprichnik will not help in fight but Otto have mamelukos and spaghi so try slow semi FF or FF without doing good damage in colonial age versus Otto, you lost very fast

Mod Edit: Fixed the quotes (and locked the post to prevent further screw-ups).

[hleung]

Why Russia should play defensively (in-base BH) versus Otto if 5cossacs (+4 cossacs) >3 huss and 13 strelets>5 jani ,Russia age up in almost same time as otto (russia click up in 2min 45 to 3min 05, otto click up in 2min 35-55 some thing like this, depend the map any way doesnt matter) Russia build BH in discovery age not coloinal, any strelets/cossacs composition beat any jan/huss /abus strategie, make 10 strelets send 5 cossacs, send 4 or send 700w for stable keep going.
Same thing when Russia play defensively versus India, why ? unless you know India will go 10/10 rush
Russia FF is not that strong because the only special unit is the oprichnik will not help in fight but Otto have mamelukos and spaghi so try slow semi FFF or FF without doing good damage in colonial age versus Otto, you lost very fast

I haven't really played many games with this MU, so please spare with me if I have said something wrong. Russia should be aging up like 20 to 30 seconds behind Otto. A shipment takes 40 seconds to arrive, so Russia might actually be facing rather early pressure from Otto if the latter goes jan rush - again I might be completely wrong. Also, in-base BH offers some flexibility in case Otto goes for a timing push if you decide to age up to fortress at any point, either to gain an edge or as a counter to Otto FF. As for India, it sometimes has a later age up than Russia, or in best cases, about equal; and Russia should be able to counter the forward agra with ruskets from BH (with some idle time at TC) + strelets shipment (possibly cossacks if India mix in gurkhas) and eventually siege it down with enough mass, so it's not really the same thing in that MU - Russia can go FB in that case imo.

It's also not a good idea to underestimate jan abus mixed in with hus, as their units in colonial are overall better, and Russian units are weaker in general (although the latter being more cost-effective), so you wouldn't really win musk+skirm+hus with skirm+hus combo. 700w is decent only if you can keep up with the early pressure, and works better with in-base BH imo. 4 cossacks shipment is more useful if it is used for raiding. Either shipment should be viable, but I would prefer to ship 700w to get the second BH up, a stable and a few houses, but then it can be very awkward and untimely if the Otto player decided to push into the single BH (assuming you are still shipping/collecting 700w), and you might not be able to hold with the mass. But again, never tried that out before, so I might be completely wrong.

Russia (semi-) FF should not be overlooked, and opri isn't the only unit in fortress. You should have cossacks ready to raid in a semi-FF, and some damage can be done to the Otto player if you raid correctly. As for FF, 2 falc shipment can effectively counter abus, or cancel out Otto's 2 falc shipment if you micro the falconets correctly. As Russia, you also have access to cav archers and 9 manchus. Cav archers might not be the best goon in game, but they can do some body-blocking with their melee resist, and 9 manchus should be decent enough to counter spahis/mamelukes (plus you should at least have some vet ruskets ready at that point). There is potential for fortress play for Russia in that MU, and 2x in-base BH + unit pops + TC fire + MM should be enough to hold off a scary fortress timing from Otto.

[Kazamkikaz]

Why Russia should play defensively (in-base BH) versus Otto if 5cossacs (+4 cossacs) >3 huss and 13 strelets>5 jani ,Russia age up in almost same time as otto (russia click up in 2min 45 to 3min 05, otto click up in 2min 35-55 some thing like this, depend the map any way doesnt matter) Russia build BH in discovery age not coloinal, any strelets/cossacs composition beat any jan/huss /abus strategie, make 10 strelets send 5 cossacs, send 4 or send 700w for stable keep going.
Same thing when Russia play defensively versus India, why ? unless you know India will go 10/10 rush
Russia FF is not that strong because the only special unit is the oprichnik will not help in fight but Otto have mamelukos and spaghi so try slow semi FFF or FF without doing good damage in colonial age versus Otto, you lost very fast

I haven't really played many games with this MU, so please spare with me if I have said something wrong. Russia should be aging up like 20 to 30 seconds behind Otto. A shipment takes 40 seconds to arrive, so Russia might actually be facing rather early pressure from Otto if the latter goes jan rush - again I might be completely wrong. Also, in-base BH offers some flexibility in case Otto goes for a timing push if you decide to age up to fortress at any point, either to gain an edge or as a counter to Otto FF. As for India, it sometimes has a later age up than Russia, or in best cases, about equal; and Russia should be able to counter the forward agra with ruskets from BH (with some idle time at TC) + strelets shipment (possibly cossacks if India mix in gurkhas) and eventually siege it down with enough mass, so it's not really the same thing in that MU - Russia can go FB in that case imo.

It's also not a good idea to underestimate jan abus mixed in with hus, as their units in colonial are overall better, and Russian units are weaker in general (although the latter being more cost-effective), so you wouldn't really win musk+skirm+hus with skirm+hus combo. 700w is decent only if you can keep up with the early pressure, and works better with in-base BH imo. 4 cossacks shipment is more useful if it is used for raiding. Either shipment should be viable, but I would prefer to ship 700w to get the second BH up, a stable and a few houses, but then it can be very awkward and untimely if the Otto player decided to push into the single BH (assuming you are still shipping/collecting 700w), and you might not be able to hold with the mass. But again, never tried that out before, so I might be completely wrong.

Russia (semi-) FF should not be overlooked, and opri isn't the only unit in fortress. You should have cossacks ready to raid in a semi-FF, and some damage can be done to the Otto player if you raid correctly. As for FF, 2 falc shipment can effectively counter abus, or cancel out Otto's 2 falc shipment if you micro the falconets correctly. As Russia, you also have access to cav archers and 9 manchus. Cav archers might not be the best goon in game, but they can do some body-blocking with their melee resist, and 9 manchus should be decent enough to counter spahis/mamelukes (plus you should at least have some vet ruskets ready at that point). There is potential for fortress play for Russia in that MU, and 2x in-base BH + unit pops + TC fire + MM should be enough to hold off a scary fortress timing from Otto.

Maybe you right i played defensively once versus otto because i saw his 2 vill close to my base but when his 5 jani came i was close to make 10 strelets, maybe i am wrong but i think colonial bo of Russia works better since you have better eco too and better militar shipments, not the case of FF since Otto have mamelukes/spahi/manchus/2 cannon, Russia have just manchu and 2 cannon as good (decisive) shipments dont considering 5 cav archer, 11 musk or 6 cossacs as i didnt consider 8 jani, 5 abus, 5 huss too

[hleung]

Maybe you right i played defensively once versus otto because i saw his 2 vill close to my base but when his 5 jani came i was close to make 10 strelets, maybe i am wrong but i think colonial bo of Russia works better since you have better eco too and better militar shipments, not the case of FF since Otto have mamelukes/spahi/manchus/2 cannon, Russia have just manchu and 2 cannon as good (decisive) shipments dont considering 5 cav archer, 11 musk or 6 cossacs as i didnt consider 8 jani, 5 abus, 5 huss too

Colonial build as Russia should work well against Otto that has a colonial agenda, but ideally Russia would want to sneak in an age up at some point to ship 2 falcs to deal with jan abus infantry mass, also shipments like 1k wood and coin, and 9 manchus, and maybe 6 opri for raid, not to mention the upgrade cards for strelets and cav. Double-carded vet strelets and cossacks can be really scary, and strelet + cav archer mixed with some cossacks is far better than the colonial composition imo, especially when they are all carded. Putting manchus in an Otto FF deck is probably sub-optimal, since you have already got 4/5 mamelukes as the merc shipment, and there should have better shipments to send than another 1k merc shipment (not sure about that though). I did not take into account other unit shipments actually, in case of FF from both sides, but both spahis and mamelukes can be countered by MM, ruskets from BH, cav archers from stable and the 9 manchu shipment. If you stay in colonial as Russia, you only have ruskets as anti-cav but without vet upgrade, while your strelet and cossack mass also has to be huge enough to counter even better units from Otto, so it is not really viable; and eventually the crate shipments will run out and Russia will probably be stuck in colonial without any way of getting out of the sticky situation.

[macacoalbino]

[spoiler=]

One general tip I have to beat otto is pressuring his explorer in age 1. When the game starts go full kaiser and rightclick the TP he is going to build. Depending on the map you can remove half the explorer hp until hes back in the base. Doing this you deny him two important things:
1. Treasures - specially food, which will decrease their ageup time and may drastically change the outcome of a game (think about 140f otto in gp)
2.Scouting information - since otto has no scout unit apart from the explorer, his scouting will be hindered meaning he might miss a safe hunt later on in the game or maybe some other resource that you'll be able to sneak vills into.

Ps: after he returns to his base he will try to go out again, you have to guess where he went and keep the pressure up, dont ever let go of his explorer until you have to build a tp or until he has units out.

Pára de viajar veio, qual é o sentido de matar o explorador otomano pra evitar ele de pegar tesouro ou explorar se de qualquer forma ele vai passar de era bem cedo e fazer o fb, vc que deveria tá procurando tesouro de comida pra passar de era cedo e procurar próximas caças e minas e não ir atrás do pobre explorador otomano


Mod Translation (with the help from Google; might not be that accurate): What is the point of killing the Ottoman explorer to prevent him from taking treasure or exploring if he will get away from it anyway. In early game, you should be looking for food treasures to click up asap and look for the next hunts and mines instead of going after the poor Ottoman explorer.

Mod Edit: This forum is English only. While we understand it might not be the easiest way for everyone to express his/her thoughts at the finest, it is for the sake of inclusion that we should write in English on ESOC forums, as English is currently the lingua franca. It also helps with moderation. Thanks!

[/spoiler]

He's questioning the merit of hunting down the explorer, which I explained in my post, without a single logical argument. Just ignore the message and follow my advice

[Sargsyan]

Remove kebab!

Aren't you Albanian

U should call him macedonian if it meant to offense him. By the way arent u albanian ? xD

[sirmusket]

Remove kebab!

Aren't you Albanian

U should call him macedonian if it meant to offense him. By the way arent u albanian ? xD

If I was Albanian I would have committed suicide a long time ago

[rsy]

teddy12 vs mrmusket bo21 grudge match pls

[Sargsyan]

Show hidden quotes

Remove kebab!

Aren't you Albanian

U should call him macedonian if it meant to offense him. By the way arent u albanian ? xD

If I was Albanian I would have committed suicide a long time ago

fair answer

[sirmusket]

teddy12 vs mrmusket bo21 grudge match pls

You do realise Tedere isn't Albanian lol.. it was a joke, he is Greek.......