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France iNcog
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20 Feb 2016, 13:29

Hey folks, gonna open this thread as a request to test out this map that I spent a little time on. There are a few things about this map which I want to try.

Image Image

First off, however, a few thank yous:

- Durokan, for starting off this map in your request thread. Basically 99% of the work was done by you. Thank you! I highly recommend checking out Durokan's workshop: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=4748

- Masterdutch, Hazza54321, Cometk, diarouga for play-testing the map with me and giving me good ideas to adjust things so that thing are better. Garja as well, for having a quick look at the map (though it got changed since). Thanks to the feedback, I was able to mess around with the .xml file and edit the map a bit. I learned quite a bit about RMS whilst doing so.


Now, the map itself is named Guinea, the setting would be in the corresponding region in Africa. It does not have Trade-post lines, only native sites. Those sites are Jesuit, which I feel like are very interesting since they fit into that region and they are also interesting units (namely, Age 2 ranged cav). There are a lot of hunts on the map, it's actually quite a food heavy map. There is a Gold mine in each players starting base and the rest of the mines are spread out over the map. There are a number of small but very dense forests spread out over the map: units cannot pass through them. Yes, this is to try out an AoC'ish vibe.

Now, what separates this map from other maps is that everything is coded so that it's perfectly symmetrical. This is both the forte and weakness of the map: there is no randomness in how resources are distributed. The only randomness are the treasures (though their location is not) and the individual tree spawns. Everything else is set so that it spawns at a very specific location. Hunts and mines are allocated very evenly and the map is as "fair" as you can get. Another feature of this map is that it has ONLY small treasures. Though, there are still quite a few of them so you should still take the time to pick those up.

The goal of this map is to see how much people are interested in static maps, with very little randomness in it. This is a Starcraft'ish approach to map-making and I want to see how that plays out in actual games. This is where you, potential play-tester, come in. I would like to ask people to download this "beta" map and play a few games on it with friends. Please record your games and post the replays in this thread (or the replays section if it was a nice game), so I can watch them as well. Naturally, please give feedback in this thread, I am very interested in hearing what people have to say about this map. I'm ready to adjust it in any way which makes it better and more interesting.

This is an experiment from me, and a personal one (not associated with esoc or anything). I want to learn more things about what makes a good map and what doesn't. I want to see if there are interesting map features which we don't often see (e.g. impassable forests, non-random resource spawns, etc.). If things go well enough with this map, perhaps I'll look into making other maps made with the community ("beta" -> changes -> test -> final version).



To install the map, please copy these two files into the following folder:
Download

Code: Select all

C:\Users\Paul\Documents\My Games\Age of Empires 3\RMF


If you've ever helped me play-test the map, or if you download the map for play-testing from here, please be sure to delete the map with "E_X" in it after "beta testing" is finished. That way we don't have lots of crappy versions of the map floating around. All of my "beta" maps will have "E_X" in it, so they'll be easy to identify in your RMF folder. "Released" maps, should I ever get around to a "final" version, will have no suffix.



Here are some replays on the map (note that some version of the map are older).
Attachments
[A414A] MASTERdutch(British)-[A414A] Incognoto(Portuguese).age3Yrec
(387.62 KiB) Downloaded 24 times
[A414A] Incognoto(Portuguese)-[HBIC] Hazza54321(French).age3Yrec
(470.05 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
[A414A] Incognoto(French)-[HBIC] Hazza54321(British).age3Yrec
(451.78 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
[B0] black_thought(British)-[A414A] Incognoto(French).age3Yrec
(454.59 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
[A414A] Incognoto(French)-[Árø] diarouga(British).age3Yrec
(482.46 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
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New Zealand zoom
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20 Feb 2016, 13:31

To be fair, there are like four states/major geographical features called Guinea...
sudmakmak wrote:This patch Keshik don't have buff anti cavalry = noob patch2.0
and don't have nerf hard japan = noob patch2.0
because all more noob player at this patch = noob logic.
or they maybe have boyfriend.(japanese boyfriend fuck your ass them)
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France iNcog
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20 Feb 2016, 13:32

Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
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New Zealand zoom
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ESO: Funnu
Location: Ramadanistan

20 Feb 2016, 13:34

That's one of those places, yes.
sudmakmak wrote:This patch Keshik don't have buff anti cavalry = noob patch2.0
and don't have nerf hard japan = noob patch2.0
because all more noob player at this patch = noob logic.
or they maybe have boyfriend.(japanese boyfriend fuck your ass them)
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Netherlands Jerom
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20 Feb 2016, 13:35

Hmm, seems like a shitty map for dutch/germany with those coin mines xd

Other than that, I dont mind the idea of non random maps. In particular, I think non random maps allow for much more interesting map features.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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No Flag thebritish
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20 Feb 2016, 13:45

What if my name isnt Paul?

-Jokes aside, the map looks great
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
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France iNcog
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20 Feb 2016, 13:54

Jerom wrote:Hmm, seems like a shitty map for dutch/germany with those coin mines xd

Other than that, I dont mind the idea of non random maps. In particular, I think non random maps allow for much more interesting map features.


Those are gold mines though. 5k in base coin should not be that bad, should it?

Also no TPs is a passive boost for Dutch. Give it a try!
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
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Netherlands Jerom
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20 Feb 2016, 13:56

iNcog wrote:
Jerom wrote:Hmm, seems like a shitty map for dutch/germany with those coin mines xd

Other than that, I dont mind the idea of non random maps. In particular, I think non random maps allow for much more interesting map features.


Those are gold mines though. 5k in base coin should not be that bad, should it?

Also no TPs is a passive boost for Dutch. Give it a try!

sorry, aoe2 artifact where my brain thinks gold = coin

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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France iNcog
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20 Feb 2016, 13:59

I'll forgive you if you give me a replay. <3
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
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Finland somppukunkku
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20 Feb 2016, 14:34

"Those are gold mines though. 5k in base coin should not be that bad, should it?"

5k gold mine in base is AWFUL. You can already sit in base and do unpunishable age ups in 90% of the EP maps.
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Bavaria Gichtenlord
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20 Feb 2016, 14:38

Looks like a good map to turtle. Worth a try though :p
r]
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France iNcog
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20 Feb 2016, 15:26

Gichtenlord wrote:Looks like a good map to turtle. Worth a try though :p


Yeah you get 20 animals with your starting hunt and your first hunt. That is indeed quite a lot. That number can go down though quite easily.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
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France iNcog
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20 Feb 2016, 15:29

somppukunkku wrote:"Those are gold mines though. 5k in base coin should not be that bad, should it?"

5k gold mine in base is AWFUL. You can already sit in base and do unpunishable age ups in 90% of the EP maps.


This isn't an EP map.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
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Spain yoqpasa
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20 Feb 2016, 16:25

what are the animals on this map?

Elephants and turkeys?
:pop: An average ESOican :pop:
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France iNcog
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20 Feb 2016, 17:20

Just pronghorn. ^^
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United States of America Durokan
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21 Feb 2016, 00:22

just tagging you


Looks fun. You should change the first line in your .xs file to reflect what the map actually is.
Image

To avoid confusion, may want to update the name of the map and date to:

/* Incog's 1v1 Obs Guinea - Feb ? 2016 1.0 -- Based on Durokan's Guinea*/

I like the addition of the extra textures + "forestmap", it makes it seem less robotic and static.


Was reading your code, and it looks like it was a major pain to write all the grass patches. Of course my hunt logic for this map is hypocritical with this suggestion, but look at how efficiently the trees and treasures spawn. If you are think it is an improvement this way, or even just a way to be more efficient and dynamic in the future, I suggest you use the following code in replacement of all patches from "paintarea1" to the last "pa413" or whatever it is.

The number of patches can be decided on a whim by changing the number in the "for" loop; you could even randomly generate the number of patches on the fly! Also, if you want to have the stuff favor other textures more just change the numbers and increase the highest number generated, IE generate from 1,100 and set the if statements to have the appropriate percentage.

Code: Select all

      int tilesetSwitch = rmRandInt(1,4);
      string grassType = "";

        for(i = 1; < 12){
      int zeArea = rmCreateArea("random grass patch"+i);
         
         if(tilesetSwitch == 1){
            grassType = "araucania\ground_grass2_ara";
         }else if(tilesetSwitch == 2){
            grassType = "araucania\ground11_ara";
         }else if(tilesetSwitch == 3){
            grassType = "araucania\ground08_ara";
         }else{
            grassType = "araucania\ground10_ara";
         }
         
      rmSetAreaTerrainType(zeArea, grassType);
      rmSetAreaSize(zeArea, 0.006, 0.068);
      rmSetAreaCoherence(zeArea, .01);      

      rmBuildArea(zeArea);
      tilesetSwitch = rmRandInt(1,4);
      }


This code fragment is based on code from a new(er) unknown map I am working on. If it doesn't work for some reason i'll upload the whole .xs file.
Check out my Custom Map Workshop here!
viewtopic.php?p=98718#top
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Netherlands Jerom
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21 Feb 2016, 02:15

somppukunkku wrote:"Those are gold mines though. 5k in base coin should not be that bad, should it?"

5k gold mine in base is AWFUL. You can already sit in base and do unpunishable age ups in 90% of the EP maps.

Hey somppu, I heard you were releasing your own balance patch + mapset a while ago. How is it doing? When can we expect it to be released?

I hope it has lots of good maps like EP.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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No Flag thebritish
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Posts: 3769

21 Feb 2016, 02:32

the balance matters most. not the maps :P
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
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Finland somppukunkku
Howdah
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Posts: 1400

21 Feb 2016, 02:43

Jerom wrote:
somppukunkku wrote:"Those are gold mines though. 5k in base coin should not be that bad, should it?"

5k gold mine in base is AWFUL. You can already sit in base and do unpunishable age ups in 90% of the EP maps.

Hey somppu, I heard you were releasing your own balance patch + mapset a while ago. How is it doing? When can we expect it to be released?

I hope it has lots of good maps like EP.

Oh damn, our 15 years old Dutch teenager gangsta group is wild and free. I'm not sure which one happens first: my balance patch publication or your puberty.
No Flag mnogud
Lancer
Posts: 904

21 Feb 2016, 06:57

somppukunkku wrote:
Jerom wrote:
somppukunkku wrote:"Those are gold mines though. 5k in base coin should not be that bad, should it?"

5k gold mine in base is AWFUL. You can already sit in base and do unpunishable age ups in 90% of the EP maps.

Hey somppu, I heard you were releasing your own balance patch + mapset a while ago. How is it doing? When can we expect it to be released?

I hope it has lots of good maps like EP.

Oh damn, our 15 years old Dutch teenager gangsta group is wild and free. I'm not sure which one happens first: my balance patch publication or your puberty.

your opinion is getting way too biased coz of ur hatred towards the esoc admins... i dont see how gold mine is awful, usually you have 2 2k silver mines, this is just 1k more, and this map doesnt even have tps so how can fortress be that viable? you dont even have big trez
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France iNcog
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Posts: 9248
ESO: status = SAVED!!1²
Location: LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION

21 Feb 2016, 08:29

mnogud wrote:
somppukunkku wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Oh damn, our 15 years old Dutch teenager gangsta group is wild and free. I'm not sure which one happens first: my balance patch publication or your puberty.

your opinion is getting way too biased coz of ur hatred towards the esoc admins... i dont see how gold mine is awful, usually you have 2 2k silver mines, this is just 1k more, and this map doesnt even have tps so how can fortress be that viable? you dont even have big trez


You seem to hit the nail on the head with this one; you seem to have understood the map's idea well.

Let's keep the discussion on the map itself though, and not give Somppu more attention unless he starts posting things in a positive way.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
User avatar
France iNcog
Gendarme
Posts: 9248
ESO: status = SAVED!!1²
Location: LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION

21 Feb 2016, 08:34

Durokan wrote:
Looks fun. You should change the first line in your .xs file to reflect what the map actually is.
Image

To avoid confusion, may want to update the name of the map and date to:

/* Incog's 1v1 Obs Guinea - Feb ? 2016 1.0 -- Based on Durokan's Guinea*/

I like the addition of the extra textures + "forestmap", it makes it seem less robotic and static.


Was reading your code, and it looks like it was a major pain to write all the grass patches. Of course my hunt logic for this map is hypocritical with this suggestion, but look at how efficiently the trees and treasures spawn. If you are think it is an improvement this way, or even just a way to be more efficient and dynamic in the future, I suggest you use the following code in replacement of all patches from "paintarea1" to the last "pa413" or whatever it is.

The number of patches can be decided on a whim by changing the number in the "for" loop; you could even randomly generate the number of patches on the fly! Also, if you want to have the stuff favor other textures more just change the numbers and increase the highest number generated, IE generate from 1,100 and set the if statements to have the appropriate percentage.

Code: Select all

      int tilesetSwitch = rmRandInt(1,4);
      string grassType = "";

        for(i = 1; < 12){
      int zeArea = rmCreateArea("random grass patch"+i);
         
         if(tilesetSwitch == 1){
            grassType = "araucania\ground_grass2_ara";
         }else if(tilesetSwitch == 2){
            grassType = "araucania\ground11_ara";
         }else if(tilesetSwitch == 3){
            grassType = "araucania\ground08_ara";
         }else{
            grassType = "araucania\ground10_ara";
         }
         
      rmSetAreaTerrainType(zeArea, grassType);
      rmSetAreaSize(zeArea, 0.006, 0.068);
      rmSetAreaCoherence(zeArea, .01);      

      rmBuildArea(zeArea);
      tilesetSwitch = rmRandInt(1,4);
      }


This code fragment is based on code from a new(er) unknown map I am working on. If it doesn't work for some reason i'll upload the whole .xs file.


I'll get around to those edits. Remember though that most of the actual work was done by you: making impassable clumps of forests and distributing resources so fairly was your code. Excellent work, I'm really happy with it. The way you spawned the hunts and mines was actually very good, it allowed me to figure out how to tailor those spawns to the remarks other play-testers have made.

You've figured out my issue with the terrain painting as well btw. I was going to ask how to do what I did more efficiently. I was thinking that copy/pasting 15 times the same lines of code could be done more efficiently with a loop but I wasn't sure how to implement it cleanly. I was just happy when I got the result which I more or less wanted.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
No Flag mnogud
Lancer
Posts: 904

21 Feb 2016, 09:51

iNcog wrote:
You seem to hit the nail on the head with this one; you seem to have understood the map's idea well.

Let's keep the discussion on the map itself though, and not give Somppu more attention unless he starts posting things in a positive way.

i believe this is the ideal map musket desire that does not give some civs a great advantage :D
No Flag mnogud
Lancer
Posts: 904

21 Feb 2016, 09:52

mnogud wrote:
iNcog wrote:
You seem to hit the nail on the head with this one; you seem to have understood the map's idea well.

Let's keep the discussion on the map itself though, and not give Somppu more attention unless he starts posting things in a positive way.

i believe this is the ideal map musket desired that does not give some civs a great advantage :D
User avatar
Finland somppukunkku
Howdah
Donator 02
Posts: 1400

21 Feb 2016, 12:50

"he starts posting things in a positive way."
So, in the other words, criticizing is forbidden? Otherwise it's Jerom breathing down my neck and telling that I need to make better patch on my own. Gotta love this circle jerk mentality. I already knew that a certain group loves doing that but Incog shouldn't be one of them.

As I said, 5k in gold mine is too much. For example Japs are able to sit in the base whole game. Russia civ advantage is destroyed and it's unplayable.

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